4 ms·
This is close, but not really Pascal's Wager. For one, I do not currently practice any religion. But if I did, I'd have to pick one exclusively, to the detrimen
by function_seven 6y ago
This is close, but not really Pascal's Wager. For one, I do not currently practice any religion. But if I did, I'd have to pick one exclusively, to the detriment of the others. So of course his wager is a weak argument.
But with posthumous baptism, it is someone else doing the thing. And multiple different religions can all claim me as their own. There can be overlap, maybe. (Or maybe not, who knows? We're in angels on the head of a pin territory here)
So, if the Mormons baptizing me causes me eternal harm, then both of the following would be true:
1. They do have supernatural powers after all. (i.e. Mormon rituals have an effect on souls, deities, etc.)
2. But their belief system is wrong.
I guess one can construct a system where both #1 and #2 hold, but I don't see it as being nearly as likely as either one in isolation.
- curiousgeorgio 6y agoYou forgot #3: if posthumous baptism actually caused harm, it would mean that whichever belief system is "right" punishes people for choices outside their own control (i.e., the actions of others). Even if that's in the realm of possibility, it sounds pretty unreasonable in the context of deciding one's eternal fate.
- michaelmrose 6y agoWouldn't it be as unlikely that a deity would reward you for the deeds of others?
- hinkley 6y agoOh this is a rabbit hole I don't think we want to climb down. I know I invited 'unlikely' in but let's not make it too welcome or we'll be here all week, or until dang tells us to knock it off.
- ensignavenger 6y agoMormonism's belief is not that you will be rewarded because some one posthumously baptized you, but because you accepted that baptism in the after-life. All are rewarded according to their own decisions/desires. Edit: Well actually, Mormonism is a Christian faith that teaches that salvation comes in and through Jesus Christ, so it really isn't your actions or their actions- but the actions of Jesus Christ- taken on your behalf, that leads to salvation- if you accept it. But it isn't so much a reward as it is an act of mercy.
- michaelmrose 6y agoThat is still rewarding you for the combined effort why wouldn't an infinitely powerful being redeem you himself?
- ensignavenger 6y agoRight, I am sorry, as soon as I hit reply I realized the mistake I made and edited my comment. I was so focused on the baptism thing I wasn't seeing the whole picture :)
- michaelmrose 6y agoI am pleased that it is possible to have so reasonable and pleasant a discussion here even on contentious topic.
- ensignavenger 6y agoMe too :) Theology can be a very fascinating topic when it is discussed in a reasonable and pleasant manner!
- dropit_sphere 6y agoUm, I mean, the contention of Mormonism (and Christianity in general) is that He did. That same being endorsed baptism by undergoing it himself. This may seem contradictory, but becomes much more tractable if you're open to the idea that "redemption" is just an abstraction, with multiple inputs, some provideable by Providence, some provideable by others, and some provideable only by the subject in question.
- thaumasiotes 6y agoThe idea that the actions of a stranger can have permanent harmful effects on you is both (1) historically common as applied to supernatural effects, and (2) completely normal in ordinary life. The very common beliefs that your soul might be damaged by someone mutilating your corpse, or stepping on your grave, aren't noticeably different from the belief that your soul might be damaged by someone anointing your corpse or a representative of your corpse.
- function_seven 6y agoThe commonality of these beliefs doesn't affect how likely I think they are to be true.