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That person needs to learn not to speak without a lawyer: “The purpose of this tweet was to find out the officer’s information, to hold him accountable.” That

That person needs to learn not to speak without a lawyer: “The purpose of this tweet was to find out the officer’s information, to hold him accountable.” That can be construed as vigilantism.

Animats 6y ago
Holding police accountable is not vigilantism. The right to photograph cops at work in the US is well established. Cops don't like that, but they lose in court on that.[1] [1] https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/protesters-rights/#i-want-to-take-pictures-or-shoot-video-at-a-protest https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/protesters-rights/#i-w...
- RandomBacon 6y ago
  I 100% agree with you. I wrote that because that's not what the prosecutor is going to say in court which is why she needs a lawyer since she is in legal trouble.
- dkdk8283 6y ago
  Proving your right in court can cost you everything.
  - thephyber 6y ago
    Ah yes, the "guilty until proven innocent" framework. I don't know about New Jersey, but the rest of the USA doesn't do it that way for criminal law. That said, I completely agree that defending yourself against a criminal charge in the USA is far too expensive.
    - rmrfstar 6y ago
      > I don't know about New Jersey, but the rest of the USA doesn't do it that way for criminal law. Do you not read the newspaper? People plea out to drug possession when there is video evidence of police planting it, because they can't afford bail and will lose their job and home if they spend 3 months in jail fighting the charge.
      - thephyber 6y ago
        I agree with you that there's a huge gap between the intended legal system and the actual legal system, but even those officers who plant evidence will give at least lip service to the "innocent until proven guilty" framework.
        dkdk8283 6y ago
        Do you have experience in the US court as a defendant? Tort or criminal
thephyber 6y ago
You can't file a police report against an officer ("holding them accountable") if all you have is a partially covered face, no badge ID, no car ID, and don't know which department/organization. Asking for help identifying an officer is not, in and of itself, vigilantism. It's possible there were intentions of "cyber harassment" (I've never seen that as a legal statute so who knows what the burden of proof is), but I highly doubt simply a retweet is sufficient to prove according to US legal standards. The original message might, but this is dangerously close to the "hate speech" type of standard they have in Europe which is very different from the speech protections we have in the USA. I would argue this lawsuit is baseless (unless there is other, as yet unknown, evidence) and I interpret it to be financial harassment by the officer of a protester which he very likely politically disagrees (based on the "blue line" flag).

That person needs to learn not to speak without a lawyer: “The purpose of this tweet was to find out the officer’s information, to hold him accountable.” That can be construed as vigilantism.

Animats 6y ago

Holding police accountable is not vigilantism. The right to photograph cops at work in the US is well established. Cops don't like that, but they lose in court on that.[1] [1] https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/protesters-rights/#i-want-to-take-pictures-or-shoot-video-at-a-protest https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/protesters-rights/#i-w...

RandomBacon 6y ago
I 100% agree with you. I wrote that because that's not what the prosecutor is going to say in court which is why she needs a lawyer since she is in legal trouble.
dkdk8283 6y ago
Proving your right in court can cost you everything.
- thephyber 6y ago
  Ah yes, the "guilty until proven innocent" framework. I don't know about New Jersey, but the rest of the USA doesn't do it that way for criminal law. That said, I completely agree that defending yourself against a criminal charge in the USA is far too expensive.
  - rmrfstar 6y ago
    > I don't know about New Jersey, but the rest of the USA doesn't do it that way for criminal law. Do you not read the newspaper? People plea out to drug possession when there is video evidence of police planting it, because they can't afford bail and will lose their job and home if they spend 3 months in jail fighting the charge.
    - thephyber 6y ago
      I agree with you that there's a huge gap between the intended legal system and the actual legal system, but even those officers who plant evidence will give at least lip service to the "innocent until proven guilty" framework.
      - dkdk8283 6y ago
        Do you have experience in the US court as a defendant? Tort or criminal

thephyber 6y ago

You can't file a police report against an officer ("holding them accountable") if all you have is a partially covered face, no badge ID, no car ID, and don't know which department/organization. Asking for help identifying an officer is not, in and of itself, vigilantism. It's possible there were intentions of "cyber harassment" (I've never seen that as a legal statute so who knows what the burden of proof is), but I highly doubt simply a retweet is sufficient to prove according to US legal standards. The original message might, but this is dangerously close to the "hate speech" type of standard they have in Europe which is very different from the speech protections we have in the USA. I would argue this lawsuit is baseless (unless there is other, as yet unknown, evidence) and I interpret it to be financial harassment by the officer of a protester which he very likely politically disagrees (based on the "blue line" flag).