3 ms·

Can you explain what you mean about the risks of cold LED light? I'm unfamiliar with this problem

skrause 6y ago
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/10/leds-good-prizes-bad-insects https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/10/leds-good-prizes-bad...
masswerk 6y ago
The basic light emitted by LEDs is generally quite cold (high color temperature). We can manufacture LEDs just in a few basic colors, where the blue ones are the most efficient. We haven't managed yet to produce something at scale like the light typically emitted by incandescent light bulbs. RGB light doesn't help here, since this is still emitting high temperature components, which are only mixed with lower energized ones. One way around this is using LEDs indirectly by energizing other light emitting materials, like phosphor, much like it is done in LED filaments, which, of course, comes at a cost. Simple filters don't help, since LEDs emit light only in a rather narrow spectrum (which is also, why they are more efficient compared to other light sources). The problem with cold light is that it is apparently attracting insects much more than broad spectrum incandescent light sources, even more than any potential breeding partners, which in turn affects mating.
- LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
  What cost? Looking back maybe 15 years all the experiments with CCFL and LEDs were more costly than the filaments i have now. They last longer, use less, AND make light which is pleasing and usable to me. Wheee! Almost candles! edit: Last longer as in have already outlasted anything I had before them, the filaments I mean. Also not really more expensive to buy. And their energy usage is ridiculously low.
  - masswerk 6y ago
    Cost as in efficiency. (Last time I looked, filaments were rated less efficient than direct light sources. However, they seem to become better.)
    - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
      I'm using these [1] https://www.osram.com/ecat/PARATHOM%20Retrofit%20CLASSIC%20B-Professional%20LED%20lamps%20with%20filament-style%20LED%20technology-LED%20lamps-Lamps-Digital%20Systems/com/en/GPS01_1504753/PP_EUROPE_Europe_eCat/ https://www.osram.com/ecat/PARATHOM%20Retrofit%20CLASSIC%20B...
      - BlueDingo 6y ago
        I'm not versed much in these filaments but from what I know, and your link, these are just phosphor-covered LEDs, right? What is it about your current bulbs or the filament design that makes you not classify them as LEDs? The power use looks the same and the listed CRI of >=80 doesn't inspire confidence.
        LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
        I didn't say that, or did I? Anyways, indeed they are chains of tiny LEDs in series, and the substrate they are embedded in is treated somehow. As I understand it, that gives the embedded LEDs a "Nachleuchtzeit"/ after glow like in the CRTs of old TVs and computer screns, which can vary, as it did with that old screen stuff too. Then there is the spatial thing, as they are spread out in the filament, you can actually look at them without being "blinded". It's more like the light radiates from a volume, softer, not from one sharp point. Not that it would matter that much, who has naked bulbs? As a result of all that there is no https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beat_(acoustics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beat_(acoustics), no perceivable flickering at my power frequency of 50Hz. I think I'm sensitive to that, because the line/destination signs on public transportion do flicker for me when I and they both stand, not only when in motion. Ah yes, the CRI. What can I say? I now have them everywhere, except the cellar. I prefer warm white, which they are. I can't see 'wrong' colors with them. Crosschecked that with a cassette of about 40 Faber-Castell color pencils right now, during my local morning twilight. Full spectrum. Because "retro-fit" they fit in my old sockets. They just hit a sweet spot for me. I dim, or 'tune' them by using one to three circuits, the switches and my rooms are wired to allow for that. Old, but not obsolete ;-)
ip26 6y ago
Cold means high blue content. Blue light is the one that most disrupts insects, nocturnal animals, your night vision, your own sleep cycle, and contributes the most to obscuring the stars.
- Florin_Andrei 6y ago
  > and contributes the most to obscuring the stars That part is not actually true. Any light will obscure the stars; if you want to compare different colors, it's the middle of the spectrum that contributes most, but the difference is small. As an amateur astronomer, the LED lights are a big problem because their light pollution is hard to filter out. Sodium is easy, it's nearly monochromatic, so a simple filter will remove most of it. Mercury is not super-hard, the spectrum is not very broad and it's pretty uneven. But LEDs have a broad, even spectrum, which is impossible to filter out.
  - ip26 6y ago
    Take it up with IDA, I guess. My understanding is blue light scatters more in the atmosphere. https://www.darksky.org/why-is-blue-light-at-night-bad/ https://www.darksky.org/why-is-blue-light-at-night-bad/

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/10/leds-good-prizes-bad-insects https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/10/leds-good-prizes-bad...

masswerk 6y ago

The basic light emitted by LEDs is generally quite cold (high color temperature). We can manufacture LEDs just in a few basic colors, where the blue ones are the most efficient. We haven't managed yet to produce something at scale like the light typically emitted by incandescent light bulbs. RGB light doesn't help here, since this is still emitting high temperature components, which are only mixed with lower energized ones. One way around this is using LEDs indirectly by energizing other light emitting materials, like phosphor, much like it is done in LED filaments, which, of course, comes at a cost. Simple filters don't help, since LEDs emit light only in a rather narrow spectrum (which is also, why they are more efficient compared to other light sources). The problem with cold light is that it is apparently attracting insects much more than broad spectrum incandescent light sources, even more than any potential breeding partners, which in turn affects mating.

LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
What cost? Looking back maybe 15 years all the experiments with CCFL and LEDs were more costly than the filaments i have now. They last longer, use less, AND make light which is pleasing and usable to me. Wheee! Almost candles! edit: Last longer as in have already outlasted anything I had before them, the filaments I mean. Also not really more expensive to buy. And their energy usage is ridiculously low.
- masswerk 6y ago
  Cost as in efficiency. (Last time I looked, filaments were rated less efficient than direct light sources. However, they seem to become better.)
  - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
    I'm using these [1] https://www.osram.com/ecat/PARATHOM%20Retrofit%20CLASSIC%20B-Professional%20LED%20lamps%20with%20filament-style%20LED%20technology-LED%20lamps-Lamps-Digital%20Systems/com/en/GPS01_1504753/PP_EUROPE_Europe_eCat/ https://www.osram.com/ecat/PARATHOM%20Retrofit%20CLASSIC%20B...
    - BlueDingo 6y ago
      I'm not versed much in these filaments but from what I know, and your link, these are just phosphor-covered LEDs, right? What is it about your current bulbs or the filament design that makes you not classify them as LEDs? The power use looks the same and the listed CRI of >=80 doesn't inspire confidence.
      - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
        I didn't say that, or did I? Anyways, indeed they are chains of tiny LEDs in series, and the substrate they are embedded in is treated somehow. As I understand it, that gives the embedded LEDs a "Nachleuchtzeit"/ after glow like in the CRTs of old TVs and computer screns, which can vary, as it did with that old screen stuff too. Then there is the spatial thing, as they are spread out in the filament, you can actually look at them without being "blinded". It's more like the light radiates from a volume, softer, not from one sharp point. Not that it would matter that much, who has naked bulbs? As a result of all that there is no https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beat_(acoustics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beat_(acoustics), no perceivable flickering at my power frequency of 50Hz. I think I'm sensitive to that, because the line/destination signs on public transportion do flicker for me when I and they both stand, not only when in motion. Ah yes, the CRI. What can I say? I now have them everywhere, except the cellar. I prefer warm white, which they are. I can't see 'wrong' colors with them. Crosschecked that with a cassette of about 40 Faber-Castell color pencils right now, during my local morning twilight. Full spectrum. Because "retro-fit" they fit in my old sockets. They just hit a sweet spot for me. I dim, or 'tune' them by using one to three circuits, the switches and my rooms are wired to allow for that. Old, but not obsolete ;-)

ip26 6y ago

Cold means high blue content. Blue light is the one that most disrupts insects, nocturnal animals, your night vision, your own sleep cycle, and contributes the most to obscuring the stars.

Florin_Andrei 6y ago
> and contributes the most to obscuring the stars That part is not actually true. Any light will obscure the stars; if you want to compare different colors, it's the middle of the spectrum that contributes most, but the difference is small. As an amateur astronomer, the LED lights are a big problem because their light pollution is hard to filter out. Sodium is easy, it's nearly monochromatic, so a simple filter will remove most of it. Mercury is not super-hard, the spectrum is not very broad and it's pretty uneven. But LEDs have a broad, even spectrum, which is impossible to filter out.
- ip26 6y ago
  Take it up with IDA, I guess. My understanding is blue light scatters more in the atmosphere. https://www.darksky.org/why-is-blue-light-at-night-bad/ https://www.darksky.org/why-is-blue-light-at-night-bad/