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And people with sweaty hands. And people with low iron levels. There's this push to show that everything is biased against certain classes. I'm sure some of the

And people with sweaty hands. And people with low iron levels. There's this push to show that everything is biased against certain classes. I'm sure some of the examples are true, but I can't imagine that constantly seeking evidence of problematic issues is good for individuals or society.

x86_64Ubuntu 6y ago
It sounds like you are suffering from anxiety over the phrase "darker skin".
- jeffreyrogers 6y ago
  Since we're psycho-analyzing each other via HN comments, I think you're projecting.
krapp 6y ago
Seeking evidence of problematic issues is how society identifies and eventually addresses such issues. Do you believe society would benefit from ignoring evidence or pretending those issues didn't exist?
- jeffreyrogers 6y ago
  I agree that seeking evidence is how issues are addressed. The problem is that evidence is being sought in a particular way, which systematically biases which evidence is available for consideration. Edit: there is a further problem that because many interpretations of the same facts are possible if you go looking for certain things you will very likely find them. While someone with different initial beliefs will find evidence of something else. All from the same facts.
  - krapp 6y ago
    But you seem to be suggesting that we ignore skin color as a relevant factor, despite the data, out of a belief that any correlations drawn from that data must be distorted to further a political agenda. The article presents what appears to be a plausible, evidence-based hypothesis as to why skin color in particular (not exclusive of other factors) might lead to inaccurate results for dark-skinned people. It then mentions studies done to either confirm or reject this hypothesis, and that the results seemed to confirm it. They link to a follow-up study done here[0]. You're only giving vague, general dismissals. If you believe the conclusions reached are in error, what evidence do you have that pulse oximeters are not affected by skin color? [0]https://journals.lww.com/anesthesia-analgesia/fulltext/2007/12001/dark_skin_decreases_the_accuracy_of_pulse.4.aspx https://journals.lww.com/anesthesia-analgesia/fulltext/2007/...
    - jeffreyrogers 6y ago
      I don't think the conclusions are in error. It's reasonably well known among medical professionals that skin color affects pulse-ox readings. It is also true that sweaty hands or low iron levels will cause incorrect pulse-ox readings. I'm also not suggesting we ignore skin color as a relevant factor. I'm taking issue with the idea that everything that involves skin color is evidence of bias or other more malicious underlying causes.

x86_64Ubuntu 6y ago

It sounds like you are suffering from anxiety over the phrase "darker skin".

jeffreyrogers 6y ago
Since we're psycho-analyzing each other via HN comments, I think you're projecting.

krapp 6y ago

Seeking evidence of problematic issues is how society identifies and eventually addresses such issues. Do you believe society would benefit from ignoring evidence or pretending those issues didn't exist?

jeffreyrogers 6y ago
I agree that seeking evidence is how issues are addressed. The problem is that evidence is being sought in a particular way, which systematically biases which evidence is available for consideration. Edit: there is a further problem that because many interpretations of the same facts are possible if you go looking for certain things you will very likely find them. While someone with different initial beliefs will find evidence of something else. All from the same facts.
- krapp 6y ago
  But you seem to be suggesting that we ignore skin color as a relevant factor, despite the data, out of a belief that any correlations drawn from that data must be distorted to further a political agenda. The article presents what appears to be a plausible, evidence-based hypothesis as to why skin color in particular (not exclusive of other factors) might lead to inaccurate results for dark-skinned people. It then mentions studies done to either confirm or reject this hypothesis, and that the results seemed to confirm it. They link to a follow-up study done here[0]. You're only giving vague, general dismissals. If you believe the conclusions reached are in error, what evidence do you have that pulse oximeters are not affected by skin color? [0]https://journals.lww.com/anesthesia-analgesia/fulltext/2007/12001/dark_skin_decreases_the_accuracy_of_pulse.4.aspx https://journals.lww.com/anesthesia-analgesia/fulltext/2007/...
  - jeffreyrogers 6y ago
    I don't think the conclusions are in error. It's reasonably well known among medical professionals that skin color affects pulse-ox readings. It is also true that sweaty hands or low iron levels will cause incorrect pulse-ox readings. I'm also not suggesting we ignore skin color as a relevant factor. I'm taking issue with the idea that everything that involves skin color is evidence of bias or other more malicious underlying causes.