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https://ourworldindata.org/suicide#gun-prevalence https://ourworldindata.org/suicide#gun-prevalence

logicchains 6y ago
That's within America, not a comparison of national rates. In spite of America having a much higher gun ownership rate than other countries it doesn't appear to have a particularly high suicide rate.
- Kednicma 6y ago
  Go compare the USA and its suicide, gun ownership, and veteran rates, as a composite metric, with Switzerland and Israel, which I'm choosing because they're rich democracies with mandatory military service and relatively high rates of gun ownership; one is very reserved, one is more aggressive than the USA, and neither has the endemic problem of military veterans using service-issued firearms to commit suicide. I found [0] to be a decent introduction to the problem; one needs to take a birds-eye view in order to see it. [0] https://everytownresearch.org/report/those-who-serve-addressing-firearm-suicide-among-military-veterans/ https://everytownresearch.org/report/those-who-serve-address...
  - watwut 6y ago
    The big difference is that American veterans are more likely to be people deployed into combat zone for extensive length of time. Also, being American soldier affects your family situation quite a lot - they have much higher rates of divorces then general population. The mandatory military service in Switzerland is not comparable to being American soldier.
- dasudasu 6y ago
  It doesn't, but it would likely be even lower still without guns. Owning a gun is a risk factor for impulsive suicides particularly.
akvadrako 6y ago
The graph I think you're pointing to is about "suicide by firearm", not "suicide rates" in general. Of course with fewer guns people will choose other methods.
- chmod775 6y ago
  I meant to point to the paragraph next to it: > (ii) firearms are also strongly related to overall suicides – despite evidence for substantial substitution in method of suicide;
- James_Henry 6y ago
  Perhaps the paper the graph is taken from would be helpful? https://mason.gmu.edu/~atabarro/BriggsTabarrokFirearmsSuicide.pdf https://mason.gmu.edu/~atabarro/BriggsTabarrokFirearmsSuicid... They go through several different models and their findings that gun ownership is associated with suicide in the US seem rather robust. There is a lot more to suicide of course: divorce, depression, alcohol use and more.
  - roenxi 6y ago
    > their findings that gun ownership is associated with suicide in the US seem rather robust. Robust is a strong word for that finding. I haven't read the paper extremely closely but page 13 suggests they have a 16 variable linear factor regression for 150 observations. With that sort of model a small but statistically detectable correlation isn't the sort of result that ends arguments. Realistically it should be discarded out of hand as a evidence for any sort of action; the effect is too small and there are too many ways that result could be misleading for both practical and statistical reasons.

That's within America, not a comparison of national rates. In spite of America having a much higher gun ownership rate than other countries it doesn't appear to have a particularly high suicide rate.

Kednicma 6y ago
Go compare the USA and its suicide, gun ownership, and veteran rates, as a composite metric, with Switzerland and Israel, which I'm choosing because they're rich democracies with mandatory military service and relatively high rates of gun ownership; one is very reserved, one is more aggressive than the USA, and neither has the endemic problem of military veterans using service-issued firearms to commit suicide. I found [0] to be a decent introduction to the problem; one needs to take a birds-eye view in order to see it. [0] https://everytownresearch.org/report/those-who-serve-addressing-firearm-suicide-among-military-veterans/ https://everytownresearch.org/report/those-who-serve-address...
- watwut 6y ago
  The big difference is that American veterans are more likely to be people deployed into combat zone for extensive length of time. Also, being American soldier affects your family situation quite a lot - they have much higher rates of divorces then general population. The mandatory military service in Switzerland is not comparable to being American soldier.
dasudasu 6y ago
It doesn't, but it would likely be even lower still without guns. Owning a gun is a risk factor for impulsive suicides particularly.

akvadrako 6y ago

The graph I think you're pointing to is about "suicide by firearm", not "suicide rates" in general. Of course with fewer guns people will choose other methods.

chmod775 6y ago
I meant to point to the paragraph next to it: > (ii) firearms are also strongly related to overall suicides – despite evidence for substantial substitution in method of suicide;
James_Henry 6y ago
Perhaps the paper the graph is taken from would be helpful? https://mason.gmu.edu/~atabarro/BriggsTabarrokFirearmsSuicide.pdf https://mason.gmu.edu/~atabarro/BriggsTabarrokFirearmsSuicid... They go through several different models and their findings that gun ownership is associated with suicide in the US seem rather robust. There is a lot more to suicide of course: divorce, depression, alcohol use and more.
- roenxi 6y ago
  > their findings that gun ownership is associated with suicide in the US seem rather robust. Robust is a strong word for that finding. I haven't read the paper extremely closely but page 13 suggests they have a 16 variable linear factor regression for 150 observations. With that sort of model a small but statistically detectable correlation isn't the sort of result that ends arguments. Realistically it should be discarded out of hand as a evidence for any sort of action; the effect is too small and there are too many ways that result could be misleading for both practical and statistical reasons.