4 ms·

Legalization of what though? Opioids? The drug that kills tens of thousands of people in the US each year, which is almost immediately and very strongly addicti

by m0zg 6y ago

Legalization of what though? Opioids? The drug that kills tens of thousands of people in the US each year, which is almost immediately and very strongly addictive, and with which it is extremely easy to overdose? No thanks. That'd be extremely damaging to society, and it'd inevitably kill a bunch of people and affect an order of magnitude more through network effects.

AniseAbyss 6y ago
Look at the reason why people use drugs. I am convinced happy people with fulfilling lives don't get addicted. Large scale substance abuse is IMO an indication something went very wrong in society.
- m0zg 6y ago
  Irrespective of the reason, I argue there is a qualitative difference between e.g. marijuana (which should absolutely be legal), and e.g. fentanyl. To suggest otherwise is to be disingenuous and willfully obtuse.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > I am convinced happy people with fulfilling lives don't get addicted. Even if that were true, it would still be possible that it was true because the same innate features which incline toward addiction work against having a happy fulfilled life in the same external conditions that someone without those features would have a happy, fulfilled life.
raverbashing 6y ago
Modern opioid addiction is a mostly manufactured problem, mainly by pharma companies and physicians In other countries, where the answer to pain isn't "throw strong opioids at every chance" the issue is much less severe.
- m0zg 6y ago
  Citation needed. Here's mine: 31K people per year die of fentanyl overdose in the United States alone. Data: https://www.drugabuse.gov/drug-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death-rates https://www.drugabuse.gov/drug-topics/trends-statistics/over... This is fentanyl, drug that is very rarely prescribed. According to Wikipedia only 4% of fentanyl overdoses result from fentanyl obtained by prescription. I maintain that it is ludicrous to suggest that we should legalize _all_ drugs. We could, however, and IMO should, replace punishment for addictive drug use with drug rehab and a cool-off period, seeing how this shit is almost inevitably deadly in the longer term and is no good for the addict or those around them, at all.
  - raverbashing 6y ago
    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/nov/08/the-making-of-an-opioid-epidemic https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/nov/08/the-making-of-a... > According to Wikipedia only 4% of fentanyl overdoses result from fentanyl obtained by prescription. Then why are they manufacturing the other 96% of fentanyl? This is not produced in backyards labs, these are made in professional labs.
    - m0zg 6y ago
      > Then why are they manufacturing the other 96% of fentanyl? This is mostly manufactured illegally in China, to make money. I thought everyone knew about this by now. The country is flooded with this garbage. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/01/world/asia/china-fentanyl-crackdown.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/01/world/asia/china-fentanyl...
  - DanBC 6y ago
    Why are those people taking fentanyl? They take fentanyl because they are addicted to opioids. How did they become addicted to opioids? Many of them were prescribed non-fentanyl opioids, and became addicted, and then had the prescriptions stopped. Some people were given meds that had been prescribed to other people - family members or friends. So, while few people are prescribed fentanyl the root source of the addiction is the massive over-prescription of opioid medication in the US.
popeathlete 6y ago
The drug that kills tens of thousands of people who don't know any better and choke on their vomit because nobody told them to lay on their side. People who overdose because they got dope laced with fent. People who overdosed because they didn't know how much h they got. People who got addicted, because the safest option was to shoot. Surely controlled selling of the substance wouldn't fix any of these problems.
- m0zg 6y ago
  This is the same level of magical thinking as "abolishing police", in that it completely ignores the deadly realities on the ground and the people who suffer the consequences do not intersect in the venn diagram with those proposing the thing. In fact those who suffer the consequences tend to be overwhelmingly against the proposal.
  - 3131s 6y ago
    You have no clue what you're talking about.

by m0zg 6y ago

AniseAbyss 6y ago

Look at the reason why people use drugs. I am convinced happy people with fulfilling lives don't get addicted. Large scale substance abuse is IMO an indication something went very wrong in society.

m0zg 6y ago
Irrespective of the reason, I argue there is a qualitative difference between e.g. marijuana (which should absolutely be legal), and e.g. fentanyl. To suggest otherwise is to be disingenuous and willfully obtuse.
dragonwriter 6y ago
> I am convinced happy people with fulfilling lives don't get addicted. Even if that were true, it would still be possible that it was true because the same innate features which incline toward addiction work against having a happy fulfilled life in the same external conditions that someone without those features would have a happy, fulfilled life.

raverbashing 6y ago

Modern opioid addiction is a mostly manufactured problem, mainly by pharma companies and physicians In other countries, where the answer to pain isn't "throw strong opioids at every chance" the issue is much less severe.

m0zg 6y ago
Citation needed. Here's mine: 31K people per year die of fentanyl overdose in the United States alone. Data: https://www.drugabuse.gov/drug-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death-rates https://www.drugabuse.gov/drug-topics/trends-statistics/over... This is fentanyl, drug that is very rarely prescribed. According to Wikipedia only 4% of fentanyl overdoses result from fentanyl obtained by prescription. I maintain that it is ludicrous to suggest that we should legalize _all_ drugs. We could, however, and IMO should, replace punishment for addictive drug use with drug rehab and a cool-off period, seeing how this shit is almost inevitably deadly in the longer term and is no good for the addict or those around them, at all.
- raverbashing 6y ago
  https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/nov/08/the-making-of-an-opioid-epidemic https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/nov/08/the-making-of-a... > According to Wikipedia only 4% of fentanyl overdoses result from fentanyl obtained by prescription. Then why are they manufacturing the other 96% of fentanyl? This is not produced in backyards labs, these are made in professional labs.
  - m0zg 6y ago
    > Then why are they manufacturing the other 96% of fentanyl? This is mostly manufactured illegally in China, to make money. I thought everyone knew about this by now. The country is flooded with this garbage. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/01/world/asia/china-fentanyl-crackdown.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/01/world/asia/china-fentanyl...
- DanBC 6y ago
  Why are those people taking fentanyl? They take fentanyl because they are addicted to opioids. How did they become addicted to opioids? Many of them were prescribed non-fentanyl opioids, and became addicted, and then had the prescriptions stopped. Some people were given meds that had been prescribed to other people - family members or friends. So, while few people are prescribed fentanyl the root source of the addiction is the massive over-prescription of opioid medication in the US.

popeathlete 6y ago

The drug that kills tens of thousands of people who don't know any better and choke on their vomit because nobody told them to lay on their side. People who overdose because they got dope laced with fent. People who overdosed because they didn't know how much h they got. People who got addicted, because the safest option was to shoot. Surely controlled selling of the substance wouldn't fix any of these problems.

m0zg 6y ago
This is the same level of magical thinking as "abolishing police", in that it completely ignores the deadly realities on the ground and the people who suffer the consequences do not intersect in the venn diagram with those proposing the thing. In fact those who suffer the consequences tend to be overwhelmingly against the proposal.
- 3131s 6y ago
  You have no clue what you're talking about.