4 ms·

soon there will no longer be the one internet. There will internet one for the USA and the "west", internet two for China and the "east" internet. and maybe a

soon there will no longer be the one internet. There will internet one for the USA and the "west", internet two for China and the "east" internet. and maybe a third type of internet for some countries which connects two both Internets (but maybe only one at a time?) so we'll have first internet countries (USA), second internet countries (China), and third internet countries (both)

markus_zhang 6y ago
Yeah read/saw that somewhere...
donavanm 6y ago
> we'll have first internet countries (USA), second internet countries (China), and third internet countries (both) This does not seem to be limited to network connectivity. The same balkanization is occurring with trade, movement of people, and defence spending as well. I would also say that its not as discrete as “USA”, “China”, “other” and is probably better expressed as “US aligned” when you start looking at nations who are already members of groups like N Eyes, EEA, Belt & Road, etc. Im particularly interested in India. Will they be successful enough to create their own sphere, fall into US influence, or defacto continue as a large unaligned “other.”
- scottlamb 6y ago
  You're describing the Cold War-era First World (US-aligned countries), Second World (socialist countries), and Third World (unaligned countries).
  - donavanm 6y ago
    I understand the parallels. I was trying to prod gp that it extends to dimensions beyond “internet” and they seem to be trending in the same direction. I do disagree that the old First/Second/Third characterizations are directly applicable. It looks to be more multipolar. The interesting points to me are, roughly, EU federalism/integration/defense, how closely/how many N Eyes will cluster with the US, and which “BRICS” will be large enough to stand on their own or even pull small “others” in to their sphere of influence. We’re not just swapping PRC for USSR. My guess is, roughly, sustainable alignments to the US, EU, and China. Sufficiently independent & influential states of India and Russia. Brazil & South Africa I dont really see them developing their own sphere nor being large enough to sustain independent major economic development along the lines of Hauwei, Airbus, TSMC, Qualcomm, Boeing, etc.
dgellow 6y ago
That’s already the case. You have at least China’s Internet, Russia’s Internet, France is discussing ways to do the same, Australia seems to want to do it too, Thailand did some experiments a few years ago, etc.
- fermienrico 6y ago
  Yet, no one seems to care what is unloaded from the ship docks, literally a "Port" where 98% of the goods are manufactured in one country including the entire supply chain that spans behind those goods.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
    That's debatable. On Intellectual Property Rights alone, U.S. Customs and Border Protection has this to stay about seizures, arrests, and convictions in 2019 alone: US$1.5 billion 256 arrests and 197 convictions https://www.cbp.gov/trade/priority-issues/ipr/statistics https://www.cbp.gov/trade/priority-issues/ipr/statistics
    - fermienrico 6y ago
      Not talking about IP problems, just the sheer number of things around you that are made in China are imported into the country.
      - TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
        Right, yeah, pretty much everything is made in China, Vietnam, Thailand, and Bangladesh. And Indonesia, as an Australian I notice that quite a bit. I dunno, they all seem to be fairly reasonable people, the one's I've met. Hard.
      - oh_sigh 6y ago
        It's unlikely my craftsman plumbers wrench is going to exfiltrate my personal data off my private home network.
  - 6y ago
ardy42 6y ago
> soon there will no longer be the one internet. There will internet one for the USA and the "west", internet two for China and the "east" internet. Soon? How about years ago. The Great Firewall already accomplishes what you describe. You can't use Google in China, and you wouldn't want to use Baidu's censored search in the US.

markus_zhang 6y ago

Yeah read/saw that somewhere...

donavanm 6y ago

> we'll have first internet countries (USA), second internet countries (China), and third internet countries (both) This does not seem to be limited to network connectivity. The same balkanization is occurring with trade, movement of people, and defence spending as well. I would also say that its not as discrete as “USA”, “China”, “other” and is probably better expressed as “US aligned” when you start looking at nations who are already members of groups like N Eyes, EEA, Belt & Road, etc. Im particularly interested in India. Will they be successful enough to create their own sphere, fall into US influence, or defacto continue as a large unaligned “other.”

scottlamb 6y ago
You're describing the Cold War-era First World (US-aligned countries), Second World (socialist countries), and Third World (unaligned countries).
- donavanm 6y ago
  I understand the parallels. I was trying to prod gp that it extends to dimensions beyond “internet” and they seem to be trending in the same direction. I do disagree that the old First/Second/Third characterizations are directly applicable. It looks to be more multipolar. The interesting points to me are, roughly, EU federalism/integration/defense, how closely/how many N Eyes will cluster with the US, and which “BRICS” will be large enough to stand on their own or even pull small “others” in to their sphere of influence. We’re not just swapping PRC for USSR. My guess is, roughly, sustainable alignments to the US, EU, and China. Sufficiently independent & influential states of India and Russia. Brazil & South Africa I dont really see them developing their own sphere nor being large enough to sustain independent major economic development along the lines of Hauwei, Airbus, TSMC, Qualcomm, Boeing, etc.

dgellow 6y ago

That’s already the case. You have at least China’s Internet, Russia’s Internet, France is discussing ways to do the same, Australia seems to want to do it too, Thailand did some experiments a few years ago, etc.

fermienrico 6y ago
Yet, no one seems to care what is unloaded from the ship docks, literally a "Port" where 98% of the goods are manufactured in one country including the entire supply chain that spans behind those goods.
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
  That's debatable. On Intellectual Property Rights alone, U.S. Customs and Border Protection has this to stay about seizures, arrests, and convictions in 2019 alone: US$1.5 billion 256 arrests and 197 convictions https://www.cbp.gov/trade/priority-issues/ipr/statistics https://www.cbp.gov/trade/priority-issues/ipr/statistics
  - fermienrico 6y ago
    Not talking about IP problems, just the sheer number of things around you that are made in China are imported into the country.
    - TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
      Right, yeah, pretty much everything is made in China, Vietnam, Thailand, and Bangladesh. And Indonesia, as an Australian I notice that quite a bit. I dunno, they all seem to be fairly reasonable people, the one's I've met. Hard.
    - oh_sigh 6y ago
      It's unlikely my craftsman plumbers wrench is going to exfiltrate my personal data off my private home network.
- 6y ago

ardy42 6y ago

> soon there will no longer be the one internet. There will internet one for the USA and the "west", internet two for China and the "east" internet. Soon? How about years ago. The Great Firewall already accomplishes what you describe. You can't use Google in China, and you wouldn't want to use Baidu's censored search in the US.