3 ms·

it would have been self-sustainable. If there was any water there.

by Pokepokalypse 6y ago

m0llusk 6y ago
or commerce
- ultrarunner 6y ago
  This is an interesting point. I just rode a motorcycle through southern Utah and was stuck by how much nice housing there was in seemingly ridiculous places. What is the commerce there? Why not Arcosanti with its intentionality and proximity to Phoenix?
- ineedasername 6y ago
  There's a limit to how many ceramic and brass bells they can sell, and compared to a local college/University it is not very accessible for their paid workshops. Getting to self sustainability always suffers from bootstrap problems, and closed loop living systems of this sort, even at 5,000 people, would suffer from lack of domain expertise or specialized resources to be truly self sustainable. At least unless they either target a low technological level of life or pick the exact 5,000 people needed to keep things going. That's not meant to be a criticism of this project. If anything the project has strong value in helping to understand roadblocks to small self-sustaining communities, while also contributing to the zeitgeist of fascinating, quirky niche communities that enhance our culture in valuable ways.
simonebrunozzi 6y ago
Well, water is relatively cheap, if your "community" can produce and sell high-value stuff, like "art". They sell bells, for example [0]. Not enough, I'd guess, but you could afford basic water and food if you can sell something else at a high enough price. [0]: https://cosanti.com/ https://cosanti.com/
douchescript 6y ago
They are big on water re-use, greywater and such. The arcology idea is islands of self container cities that are self sustainable isolated ecosystems that recycle water etc. These are islands in a new wilderness around. Some arcologies are in space, some are in jungles, some in deserts. Like noas ark. However much i like the visuals of solieris vision, concrete, hippie and brutalist architecture in general, i find the idea of life a city that cannot grow but inwards pretty grim.
nkoren 6y ago
Water isn't a problem there. They've got wells tapping into the Agua Fria river, which is half a mile away. Its subsurface flow makes it the third largest river in the state.

it would have been self-sustainable. If there was any water there.

m0llusk 6y ago

or commerce

ultrarunner 6y ago
This is an interesting point. I just rode a motorcycle through southern Utah and was stuck by how much nice housing there was in seemingly ridiculous places. What is the commerce there? Why not Arcosanti with its intentionality and proximity to Phoenix?
ineedasername 6y ago
There's a limit to how many ceramic and brass bells they can sell, and compared to a local college/University it is not very accessible for their paid workshops. Getting to self sustainability always suffers from bootstrap problems, and closed loop living systems of this sort, even at 5,000 people, would suffer from lack of domain expertise or specialized resources to be truly self sustainable. At least unless they either target a low technological level of life or pick the exact 5,000 people needed to keep things going. That's not meant to be a criticism of this project. If anything the project has strong value in helping to understand roadblocks to small self-sustaining communities, while also contributing to the zeitgeist of fascinating, quirky niche communities that enhance our culture in valuable ways.

simonebrunozzi 6y ago

Well, water is relatively cheap, if your "community" can produce and sell high-value stuff, like "art". They sell bells, for example [0]. Not enough, I'd guess, but you could afford basic water and food if you can sell something else at a high enough price. [0]: https://cosanti.com/ https://cosanti.com/

douchescript 6y ago

They are big on water re-use, greywater and such. The arcology idea is islands of self container cities that are self sustainable isolated ecosystems that recycle water etc. These are islands in a new wilderness around. Some arcologies are in space, some are in jungles, some in deserts. Like noas ark. However much i like the visuals of solieris vision, concrete, hippie and brutalist architecture in general, i find the idea of life a city that cannot grow but inwards pretty grim.

nkoren 6y ago

Water isn't a problem there. They've got wells tapping into the Agua Fria river, which is half a mile away. Its subsurface flow makes it the third largest river in the state.