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I am Danish but "left" the country 7-8 years ago. The last few months I've been back to prepare for my move to the US, which will be my second time living and w

I am Danish but "left" the country 7-8 years ago. The last few months I've been back to prepare for my move to the US, which will be my second time living and working there. It's remarkable how absurd the Danish world-view appears to me now after living abroad in several very different cultures. The social welfare system is more attractive than ever, but the provincialism, the we-are-the-best attitude, and the subtle and overt xenophobia is staggering. One thing I realized with some sadness on this most recent stay is that I doubt I will ever able to move back, if only because the woman I plan to marry would be treated as a second-rate human being.

yequalsx 16y ago
I'm American but grew up in the Canal Zone. I've been in Germany a lot the past two years. My girlfriend is German and lives in Berlin. My impression is that Germans really do believe they are the best. They will never say so publicly but deep down they really believe it. My girlfriend's dad joked about Americans and hamburgers. I offered to make him one since he'd never had one. He emphatically said no. I'm a picky eater and hate cabbage. I politely declined to try some of his dishes because of the cabbage thing. He asked if Americans were always unwilling to try new things. I pointed out that he wouldn't try a hamburger and he got upset. He didn't see it as hypocritical. (It didn't bother me that he didn't want to try one. I don't care what people are or aren't willing to eat.) There were other things and then it dawned on me. He really thinks his was is the best and can't understand how someone would think differently. He was in the Wehrmacht and his attitudes gave me a creepy feeling. I know this is anecdotal but I've gotten this impression from many Germans of different ages. Germans think they are better. It cracks me up when I hear Germans talking about American arrogance.
- psykotic 16y ago
  > It cracks me up when I hear Germans talking about American arrogance. Oh, most Americans are definitely arrogant on their country's behalf. You're not off the hook. :)
- grammaton 16y ago
  > He was in the Wehrmacht Wait, what?
  - yequalsx 16y ago
    Yeah, he's a WW II vet. My dad passed away in December and he was a WW II vet. My dad fought the Germans and he never said a bad word about Germans or Germany. None that I ever heard. My girlfriend's dad? I've heard plenty from him about Americans (in a negative sense). My girlfriend's dad fought on the Eastern front and he tells stories about how uncivilized the Soviets were. He doesn't say the word but it sort of hangs in the air unspoken; untermensch. He was also in the Auschwitz area for a while as a guard. It's tough being around him and I avoid it as much as I can. It's very uncomfortable.
    - notJim 16y ago
      Please don't portray your girlfriend's dad's attitude as the attitude of the entire German population! No offense, but the way you're talking paints a very negative picture of some 80 million people. I realize this is obvious to everyone reading this, but it still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
    - grammaton 16y ago
      I take it he's thrilled his daughter is dating an American - son of an Allied veteran, no less? Sorry if I'm prying, I'm just fascinated by living history.
      - yequalsx 16y ago
        No, he doesn't seem to mind me. He does have his prejudices with regard to America. (The amis is the derogatory German term.) Two months ago I had lunch with him, another former Wehrmacht soldier and three women from that generation. The other guy was extremely rude. He said many derogatory things about Americans and American prisoner of war camp guards (my dad was such a guard after the war). I don't speak German and didn't know about this until after the dinner when my girlfriend interpreted for me. I was pissed at her for not letting me know what he said until after he left. She didn't want a scene to be caused. No one in the group said anything to the man or to correct him or to say that he was full of shit. They all kept cheerfully engaged in conversation. What's amazing to me is that the great crime of that generation was silence. Few spoke out against racist talk. Few stood up against foolish rantings. Sixty years later here was a group of Germans from that generation still afraid to speak up. Still afraid of causing a scene (and my girlfriend too!). It was absolutely shocking. I was really pissed because my dad had died a few weeks earlier and it was hard to hear this stuff from the likes of these people. No Wehrmacht soldier has the right to call another uncivilized and he did call Americans uncivilized. The whole thing caused me to reflect a lot. It's something I'll never forget. My girlfriend's generation suffers from what I call "the German guilt thing". Her father's generation doesn't seem to have ever come to grips with what they did. This is all anecdotal of course. But in my dealings with other Germans it's clear to me that Germans on a whole do think they are better (or their way of life is better) than anyone else. They won't say this anymore but deep down there appears to be an "uber alles" bent. Other people have different experiences and come to different conclusions than me. This is all just my opinion. I guess the crux of what I'm saying is that it is easy to feel superior and such arrogance isn't limited to Americans. There are lots of examples in the history of the world of such thinking. It's bad whenever it occurs and the worst form of it is to ignore it in your culture while condemning it in other cultures.
- slowernet 16y ago
  Did it occur to your girlfriend's Dad that the name "Hamburger" might indicate something about the origin of the dish? I wonder if that would impact his interest in trying it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburger#First_beginnings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburger#First_beginnings
- mturmon 16y ago
  You might enjoy Whit Stillman's movie Barcelona which is partly about inter-cultural romance, as well as the cultural role of hamburgers. After mocking McDonald's and hamburgers while dating in Barcelona, in the final scene of the movie, they enjoy a real burger from the grill and decide it's pretty good after all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLMsavNEZ1U http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLMsavNEZ1U

yequalsx 16y ago

I'm American but grew up in the Canal Zone. I've been in Germany a lot the past two years. My girlfriend is German and lives in Berlin. My impression is that Germans really do believe they are the best. They will never say so publicly but deep down they really believe it. My girlfriend's dad joked about Americans and hamburgers. I offered to make him one since he'd never had one. He emphatically said no. I'm a picky eater and hate cabbage. I politely declined to try some of his dishes because of the cabbage thing. He asked if Americans were always unwilling to try new things. I pointed out that he wouldn't try a hamburger and he got upset. He didn't see it as hypocritical. (It didn't bother me that he didn't want to try one. I don't care what people are or aren't willing to eat.) There were other things and then it dawned on me. He really thinks his was is the best and can't understand how someone would think differently. He was in the Wehrmacht and his attitudes gave me a creepy feeling. I know this is anecdotal but I've gotten this impression from many Germans of different ages. Germans think they are better. It cracks me up when I hear Germans talking about American arrogance.

psykotic 16y ago
> It cracks me up when I hear Germans talking about American arrogance. Oh, most Americans are definitely arrogant on their country's behalf. You're not off the hook. :)
grammaton 16y ago
> He was in the Wehrmacht Wait, what?
- yequalsx 16y ago
  Yeah, he's a WW II vet. My dad passed away in December and he was a WW II vet. My dad fought the Germans and he never said a bad word about Germans or Germany. None that I ever heard. My girlfriend's dad? I've heard plenty from him about Americans (in a negative sense). My girlfriend's dad fought on the Eastern front and he tells stories about how uncivilized the Soviets were. He doesn't say the word but it sort of hangs in the air unspoken; untermensch. He was also in the Auschwitz area for a while as a guard. It's tough being around him and I avoid it as much as I can. It's very uncomfortable.
  - notJim 16y ago
    Please don't portray your girlfriend's dad's attitude as the attitude of the entire German population! No offense, but the way you're talking paints a very negative picture of some 80 million people. I realize this is obvious to everyone reading this, but it still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
  - grammaton 16y ago
    I take it he's thrilled his daughter is dating an American - son of an Allied veteran, no less? Sorry if I'm prying, I'm just fascinated by living history.
    - yequalsx 16y ago
      No, he doesn't seem to mind me. He does have his prejudices with regard to America. (The amis is the derogatory German term.) Two months ago I had lunch with him, another former Wehrmacht soldier and three women from that generation. The other guy was extremely rude. He said many derogatory things about Americans and American prisoner of war camp guards (my dad was such a guard after the war). I don't speak German and didn't know about this until after the dinner when my girlfriend interpreted for me. I was pissed at her for not letting me know what he said until after he left. She didn't want a scene to be caused. No one in the group said anything to the man or to correct him or to say that he was full of shit. They all kept cheerfully engaged in conversation. What's amazing to me is that the great crime of that generation was silence. Few spoke out against racist talk. Few stood up against foolish rantings. Sixty years later here was a group of Germans from that generation still afraid to speak up. Still afraid of causing a scene (and my girlfriend too!). It was absolutely shocking. I was really pissed because my dad had died a few weeks earlier and it was hard to hear this stuff from the likes of these people. No Wehrmacht soldier has the right to call another uncivilized and he did call Americans uncivilized. The whole thing caused me to reflect a lot. It's something I'll never forget. My girlfriend's generation suffers from what I call "the German guilt thing". Her father's generation doesn't seem to have ever come to grips with what they did. This is all anecdotal of course. But in my dealings with other Germans it's clear to me that Germans on a whole do think they are better (or their way of life is better) than anyone else. They won't say this anymore but deep down there appears to be an "uber alles" bent. Other people have different experiences and come to different conclusions than me. This is all just my opinion. I guess the crux of what I'm saying is that it is easy to feel superior and such arrogance isn't limited to Americans. There are lots of examples in the history of the world of such thinking. It's bad whenever it occurs and the worst form of it is to ignore it in your culture while condemning it in other cultures.
slowernet 16y ago
Did it occur to your girlfriend's Dad that the name "Hamburger" might indicate something about the origin of the dish? I wonder if that would impact his interest in trying it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburger#First_beginnings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburger#First_beginnings
mturmon 16y ago
You might enjoy Whit Stillman's movie Barcelona which is partly about inter-cultural romance, as well as the cultural role of hamburgers. After mocking McDonald's and hamburgers while dating in Barcelona, in the final scene of the movie, they enjoy a real burger from the grill and decide it's pretty good after all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLMsavNEZ1U http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLMsavNEZ1U