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Consider transportation of oil and gas (petrol / auto gasoline) along with gas refining versus electricity generation and transmission. In any case full electr

Consider transportation of oil and gas (petrol / auto gasoline) along with gas refining versus electricity generation and transmission. In any case full electric cars allow centralized power generation, in turn allowing more opportunities for clean power.

brianbreslin 16y ago
it'll be interesting to see if with this renewed nuclear scare if we'll see centralized power generation as such a benefit. as small scale energy production gets more cost effective I could see many homes generating their own power (solar, thermal) - though I'm not saying any time soon.
protomyth 16y ago
Liquid fuel does have one serious upside that electric doesn't: storage.
- coryrc 16y ago
  And recharge time: I calculated once that refilling your gas car occurs at a rate of approximately 5 Megawatts! But, for 95% of trips, an overnight charge at 120V is sufficient.s
  - protomyth 16y ago
    Yeah, we have a country built for a liquid fuel economy and electric just doesn't fit. I have some serious fears of technology not as versatile as previous and not as cheap.
  - athom 16y ago
    What we really need for electric cars is battery swapout. Just pull into the nearest station, trade out the drained battery for a fresh one, and you're off! Meanwhile, the station sets the drained battery on the charging array, and in a few hours, it's ready for the next customer! In theory. I can see at least a couple of challenges in making such a system feasible. It's not like you can just shove the batteries into a massive underground tank, for example.
    - jokermatt999 16y ago
      That's actually being done by Better Place. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Place http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Place
    - protomyth 16y ago
      What would the capital cost of such a scheme be and how fast could adoption happen? I am very skeptical of a large roll-out since all the current infrastructure is obsolete.
    - VladRussian 16y ago
      swapout is DOA. 30kw/h = 1000A x 120V x 15min. With coffee and wi-fi 15 min is nothing for most of the people. Replacing pumps with electricity chargers, the gas stations will easily morph into Starbucks and Starbucks/Safeways/etc... will morph into charging stations.
      - chancho 16y ago
        15 minutes? Are you kidding? It takes that long to get your oil changed and most people can't even be bothered to do that every 3 months / 3000 miles.
        VladRussian 16y ago
        you are mixing things that can be delayed till next Monday and things that can't
    - coryrc 16y ago
      Not really. For those rare trips you drive more than 100 miles, rent a liquid-fueled vehicle. They're much better suited for such trips. An electric vehicle is more specialized as a every-day commuter vehicle. It is cheaper in that duty. Like a gas car, your cell phone can do anything your desktop can do, but your desktop is better suited for some tasks (i.e. faster for writing letters) even if its mobility is less.
- r00fus 16y ago
  And portability. And being reliable/known. Which is why militaries require large amounts of fossil fuels for now. I remember when I was in the Army that our 5-ton dump trucks had lots of onboard stuff running off pressurized air, presumably making the vehicle more durable to electrical failures Combine with local stored fossil fuels, and basic mobility/counter-mobility, and you have a harder-to-cripple ground force.
- rickmode 16y ago
  Not to mention that in an accident, the available energy with liquid fuel is a fraction of the total. Only the gaseous portion will expode. With a battery, the entire stored energy is available should it arc.

brianbreslin 16y ago

it'll be interesting to see if with this renewed nuclear scare if we'll see centralized power generation as such a benefit. as small scale energy production gets more cost effective I could see many homes generating their own power (solar, thermal) - though I'm not saying any time soon.

protomyth 16y ago

Liquid fuel does have one serious upside that electric doesn't: storage.

coryrc 16y ago
And recharge time: I calculated once that refilling your gas car occurs at a rate of approximately 5 Megawatts! But, for 95% of trips, an overnight charge at 120V is sufficient.s
- protomyth 16y ago
  Yeah, we have a country built for a liquid fuel economy and electric just doesn't fit. I have some serious fears of technology not as versatile as previous and not as cheap.
- athom 16y ago
  What we really need for electric cars is battery swapout. Just pull into the nearest station, trade out the drained battery for a fresh one, and you're off! Meanwhile, the station sets the drained battery on the charging array, and in a few hours, it's ready for the next customer! In theory. I can see at least a couple of challenges in making such a system feasible. It's not like you can just shove the batteries into a massive underground tank, for example.
  - jokermatt999 16y ago
    That's actually being done by Better Place. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Place http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Place
  - protomyth 16y ago
    What would the capital cost of such a scheme be and how fast could adoption happen? I am very skeptical of a large roll-out since all the current infrastructure is obsolete.
  - VladRussian 16y ago
    swapout is DOA. 30kw/h = 1000A x 120V x 15min. With coffee and wi-fi 15 min is nothing for most of the people. Replacing pumps with electricity chargers, the gas stations will easily morph into Starbucks and Starbucks/Safeways/etc... will morph into charging stations.
    - chancho 16y ago
      15 minutes? Are you kidding? It takes that long to get your oil changed and most people can't even be bothered to do that every 3 months / 3000 miles.
      - VladRussian 16y ago
        you are mixing things that can be delayed till next Monday and things that can't
  - coryrc 16y ago
    Not really. For those rare trips you drive more than 100 miles, rent a liquid-fueled vehicle. They're much better suited for such trips. An electric vehicle is more specialized as a every-day commuter vehicle. It is cheaper in that duty. Like a gas car, your cell phone can do anything your desktop can do, but your desktop is better suited for some tasks (i.e. faster for writing letters) even if its mobility is less.
r00fus 16y ago
And portability. And being reliable/known. Which is why militaries require large amounts of fossil fuels for now. I remember when I was in the Army that our 5-ton dump trucks had lots of onboard stuff running off pressurized air, presumably making the vehicle more durable to electrical failures Combine with local stored fossil fuels, and basic mobility/counter-mobility, and you have a harder-to-cripple ground force.
rickmode 16y ago
Not to mention that in an accident, the available energy with liquid fuel is a fraction of the total. Only the gaseous portion will expode. With a battery, the entire stored energy is available should it arc.