3 ms·

I suppose that's fair--funding bias is surely a thing, and may be valid in this case, although I disagree about the actual authors "highly biased" credentials.

by qchris 6y ago

I suppose that's fair--funding bias is surely a thing, and may be valid in this case, although I disagree about the actual authors "highly biased" credentials. If someone was interested in education, those are the kind of credentials one would have. It would be like dismissing a civil engineer's opinion about the stability of a bridge, simply because other civil engineers might make money off the repair. >> "would likely be a multi-generational effort can be seen as an admission that the funding won't actually work. I squinted pretty hard, and failed to see that admission. I do see an honest acknowledgement that lack of funding builds systemic issues in areas with poor educational systems, which takes time to resolve. "Give all the money overnight and that will fix everything immediately" is completely different from "some extra money to make sure kids actually have pens and paper". Also, describing "widespread agreement" isn't a logical fallacy in this case, it's a necessary precursor to public policy. Can you imagine setting policy based on the reverse? "Very few experts agree about this topic, so lets do...." It's as important in education policy as it is for choosing the next large particle physics experiment. The article is largely a meta-analysis anyway--describing the current consensus is sort of the point. >> I see a repeated claim that schools serving students with poverty need more money per student. If true, this proves that money is not the problem. Bad students are the problem. This sentence and the following paragraph comes uncomfortably close to being a dog-whistle about poor people (and let's be honest, many of whom are people of color) being fundamentally bad students and not worth spending money on because they don't care about learning anyway. I think your logic about what proves what is shallow and flawed, and the sentiment harmful. I can't prove or disprove your anecdote about kids destroying computers, or how widespread that is, but it's sort of a sidetrack here anyway. There's a spectrum between "every family must pay for private tutors and materials out of pocket for the their children's entire education" and "let's have public schools give free laptops to students to destroy with no consequences". My point is that having thousands of kids in the "go to school but can't be successful because they lack access to the basic materials" part of that spectrum is the wrong answer, and one that is easily fixed by increasing funding for that purpose.

burfog 6y ago
The supposed "widespread agreement" doesn't include this less-biased source: https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/do-school-spending-cuts-really-hurt-students https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/do-school-spend... I suppose the fallacy was not a claim of correctness due to actual popularity. It was a claim of correctness due to non-existent popularity. We don't all agree. Lack of money for pens and paper seems to be fake. Remember that they are dirt cheap. Blowing the budget on computers, then claiming that you can't afford pens and paper, is a great tactic to fight for an unjustified funding increase. When I see millions of dollars being spent on football stadiums, my blood boils. Clearly, the budget is far too large. It is purposely misallocated. You could increase the budget enough to buy every student a ream of paper and a box of pens every day, and there still wouldn't be enough money for pens and paper. I know a person who taught in a DC school. There is no teaching. Nobody is willing to cooperate. That's how it goes, and no amount of money will fix it. Spending all our money on bad students will harm society. We need high achievers. We need the gifted. Money spent on the better students is more productive, leading to great engineers and scientists who will produce the civilization-enabling technology. If you own a trailer home in a bad trailer park, and you also own a cute townhouse in a fashionable neighborhood, where should you spend the money to install a marble floor? Putting the marble floor in the trailer home is a wasted investment.
- qchris 6y ago
  Calling an article from the Cato Institute, which was published in the Washington Examiner (you know, the same one that published op-eds claiming that most climate models are worthless, by an author who received hundreds of thousands of dollars in fossil fuel company money?) is hardly a less-biased source. And the author's own funding is hardly independent and unbiased. Lack of money for pens and paper is not fake. I'll link a few articles below to help you, just from this year, but it's not. I mean, it's just not. That's the reality of public schools. I don't know how else to convince you. Feel free to Google News or DDG "lack of school supplies" and you'll hit a ton of additional links from all over the country [1][2][3]. In any case, your last couple paragraphs are getting a little of base, but yeah, it boils my blood to see that much money spent on football stadiums too. No argument there. Yes, programs for the gifted and high-achieving are needed as well. But refusing to get kids the basics of what they need to even start being successful simply because they come from a poor family isn't just unethical, it prevents kids who would otherwise being high-achievers from even getting in the race. That cuts society off at the knees. [1] https://www.npr.org/2017/07/30/540448101/nationwide-teachers-supplement-school-supplies-with-their-salaries https://www.npr.org/2017/07/30/540448101/nationwide-teachers... [2] https://investors.thecloroxcompany.com/investors/news-and-events/press-releases/press-release-details/2020/The-Clorox-Brand-Donates-1000000-to-ClearTheList-Foundation-to-Provide-Resources-for-Teachers-and-Students-During-an-Unprecedented-Back-To-School-Season/default.aspx https://investors.thecloroxcompany.com/investors/news-and-ev... [3] https://www.wsoctv.com/community/family-focus/school-supplies-help-vulnerable-students-overcome-obstacles/4RIOY7FTFRG4NCDBLRTIHF35TA/ https://www.wsoctv.com/community/family-focus/school-supplie...

by qchris 6y ago

burfog 6y ago

The supposed "widespread agreement" doesn't include this less-biased source: https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/do-school-spending-cuts-really-hurt-students https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/do-school-spend... I suppose the fallacy was not a claim of correctness due to actual popularity. It was a claim of correctness due to non-existent popularity. We don't all agree. Lack of money for pens and paper seems to be fake. Remember that they are dirt cheap. Blowing the budget on computers, then claiming that you can't afford pens and paper, is a great tactic to fight for an unjustified funding increase. When I see millions of dollars being spent on football stadiums, my blood boils. Clearly, the budget is far too large. It is purposely misallocated. You could increase the budget enough to buy every student a ream of paper and a box of pens every day, and there still wouldn't be enough money for pens and paper. I know a person who taught in a DC school. There is no teaching. Nobody is willing to cooperate. That's how it goes, and no amount of money will fix it. Spending all our money on bad students will harm society. We need high achievers. We need the gifted. Money spent on the better students is more productive, leading to great engineers and scientists who will produce the civilization-enabling technology. If you own a trailer home in a bad trailer park, and you also own a cute townhouse in a fashionable neighborhood, where should you spend the money to install a marble floor? Putting the marble floor in the trailer home is a wasted investment.

qchris 6y ago
Calling an article from the Cato Institute, which was published in the Washington Examiner (you know, the same one that published op-eds claiming that most climate models are worthless, by an author who received hundreds of thousands of dollars in fossil fuel company money?) is hardly a less-biased source. And the author's own funding is hardly independent and unbiased. Lack of money for pens and paper is not fake. I'll link a few articles below to help you, just from this year, but it's not. I mean, it's just not. That's the reality of public schools. I don't know how else to convince you. Feel free to Google News or DDG "lack of school supplies" and you'll hit a ton of additional links from all over the country [1][2][3]. In any case, your last couple paragraphs are getting a little of base, but yeah, it boils my blood to see that much money spent on football stadiums too. No argument there. Yes, programs for the gifted and high-achieving are needed as well. But refusing to get kids the basics of what they need to even start being successful simply because they come from a poor family isn't just unethical, it prevents kids who would otherwise being high-achievers from even getting in the race. That cuts society off at the knees. [1] https://www.npr.org/2017/07/30/540448101/nationwide-teachers-supplement-school-supplies-with-their-salaries https://www.npr.org/2017/07/30/540448101/nationwide-teachers... [2] https://investors.thecloroxcompany.com/investors/news-and-events/press-releases/press-release-details/2020/The-Clorox-Brand-Donates-1000000-to-ClearTheList-Foundation-to-Provide-Resources-for-Teachers-and-Students-During-an-Unprecedented-Back-To-School-Season/default.aspx https://investors.thecloroxcompany.com/investors/news-and-ev... [3] https://www.wsoctv.com/community/family-focus/school-supplies-help-vulnerable-students-overcome-obstacles/4RIOY7FTFRG4NCDBLRTIHF35TA/ https://www.wsoctv.com/community/family-focus/school-supplie...