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I agree with you. My own "disappointment" is not with 'regular joe' Americans, but with educated Americans. Being from a large city in India, I know from perso

by FraaJad 16y ago

I agree with you. My own "disappointment" is not with 'regular joe' Americans, but with educated Americans. Being from a large city in India, I know from personal experience that majority of the people with college education, especially technical education are knowledgeable about things outside their own country at least in a conversational level, if not they want to know more. I cannot assume the same with Americans. I felt astonished that people who have degrees from top technical universities have lop sided and often dated views of the rest of world. Many time they are not even ready to acknowledge that things can and often are done better outside their own country. The sense of NIH is very strong.

smanek 16y ago
America is special. We're special for a lot of reasons, including 'soft power' (e.g., the most watched movies in the world are from America), 'hard power' (our military is more powerful and more likely to be used than any other plausible combination of nations I can think of), and economic power (our GDP is on par with the entire European Union. It is significantly larger than Brazil, Russia, India, and China's combined). For these reasons, most every educated person in the world knows more about America than almost any other country (excluding their own and a handful of neighbors). I don't understand why a citizen of country X is surprised that most Americans don't know much more about X, than they they themselves do about Country Y (where Y is roughly of equal importance as X, but is on the other side of the world). I've met Brits who were insulted that I only know who their Prime Minister is and what the major parties are, while they are familiar with the intricacies of American politics (upcoming elections, controversies, major players in each party, etc). Yet, they almost always know absolutely nothing about Brazilian politics (while I also know Brazil's major parties and President). Why is it so difficult to understand that, to an American, British politics are about as important as Brazilian politics are to a Brit?
- alextp 16y ago
  > For these reasons, most every educated person in the world knows more about America than almost any other country (excluding their own and a handful of neighbors) At least in brazil people seem to know more about america than the rest of the country, specially in the richer and more educated regions in the south and southwest. Everyone I talk to is far more likely to know who is the president of the US or the governor of california than who is the governor of Piauí or the vice-president of brazil.
- FraaJad 16y ago
  Nothing that I can disagree with. And that's one reason why I have become a little bit of an American myself by not giving a hoot about what Americans think about India.
- nooneelse 16y ago
  I think that "country X vs Y" stuff is much of why, when an American is ignorant about facets of another country/culture, they don't default to feeling like they are in some way at fault for that ignorance. That isn't the same thing as being proud of their ignorance (which is around in America, but much less common than one might fear), it is a reasonable position to have. Any time spent learning about the details of some other culture/country is time not spent on learning about another. Faced with the abundance of sets of details to learn, and with little to make one country/culture's set of details stand out as the one an American might want to learn, lack of self-recrimination is a pretty healthy response. Maybe it would seem more polite if American's made like they were embarrassed about the ignorance when it comes up, but that would go against being honest.
  - smanek 16y ago
    My point is that Indians (for example) aren't embarrassed by their ignorance about Brazil (for example), but expect Americans to be embarrassed by their ignorance of India.
_delirium 16y ago
Many time they are not even ready to acknowledge that things can and often are done better outside their own country. The sense of NIH is very strong. I agree with this, but I haven't actually been to a country that wasn't like that. Certainly here in Denmark, many Danes are quite certain that Denmark is run better than any other place. ;-)
- psykotic 16y ago
  I am Danish but "left" the country 7-8 years ago. The last few months I've been back to prepare for my move to the US, which will be my second time living and working there. It's remarkable how absurd the Danish world-view appears to me now after living abroad in several very different cultures. The social welfare system is more attractive than ever, but the provincialism, the we-are-the-best attitude, and the subtle and overt xenophobia is staggering. One thing I realized with some sadness on this most recent stay is that I doubt I will ever able to move back, if only because the woman I plan to marry would be treated as a second-rate human being.
  - yequalsx 16y ago
    I'm American but grew up in the Canal Zone. I've been in Germany a lot the past two years. My girlfriend is German and lives in Berlin. My impression is that Germans really do believe they are the best. They will never say so publicly but deep down they really believe it. My girlfriend's dad joked about Americans and hamburgers. I offered to make him one since he'd never had one. He emphatically said no. I'm a picky eater and hate cabbage. I politely declined to try some of his dishes because of the cabbage thing. He asked if Americans were always unwilling to try new things. I pointed out that he wouldn't try a hamburger and he got upset. He didn't see it as hypocritical. (It didn't bother me that he didn't want to try one. I don't care what people are or aren't willing to eat.) There were other things and then it dawned on me. He really thinks his was is the best and can't understand how someone would think differently. He was in the Wehrmacht and his attitudes gave me a creepy feeling. I know this is anecdotal but I've gotten this impression from many Germans of different ages. Germans think they are better. It cracks me up when I hear Germans talking about American arrogance.
ido 16y ago
I don't know where in India you are, but I've spent 2 months there and have encountered my share of educated Indians who, for example, didn't know where or what Austria is or that Israel has a lot of Jewish people in it (or even what Jews are). Another example off the top of my head was an educated engineer (who went to graduate school) who didn't know what the Roman Empire was. All of these examples or equivalents never manifested themselves when I was in the US. Many (upper class) Indians are extremely ignorant about the world outside of India.
- hessenwolf 16y ago
  India is a bit like America in the fact that it is huge and multicultural, and you do not need to leave in order to travel, in my experience. (incidentally, from Ireland, I must admit I had met and drank beer with several Israelis years before I knew anything about the whole Jewish thing. It's pretty easy to ignore history & geography when you are younger.)
- FraaJad 16y ago
  I'm from Bangalore. I know about Austria (and it's infamous son), Israel and it's formative years and it's current influence on my country and middle east. Also, as a South Indian, I know that Jews have lived in my part of the country for nearly two thousand years. Of course, I may be atypical. My point is that I'm yet to meet atypical people like myself in US even in handfuls after three years of living here and travelling to many big cities.
  - ido 16y ago
    I am surprised to hear that, since my 2 visits to the US were much briefer than the time you spent there and I have met many such people.
billybob 16y ago
Speaking as an American who has spent time in Mexico, Spain and Ireland, and has traveled to southeast Asia: yes, Americans do sometimes have an arrogant view of the world. On the other hand, knowing about other countries doesn't come as naturally here. If you live in Europe, you can take an overnight train ride to any one of a dozen countries, with whom you share a currency and often a closely-related language. An extreme example is Andorra, nested between Spain and France, where even before the Euro, they were too small to bother having their own currency, and natives basically can't get by without speaking French, Spain and Catalan, at a minimum. Contrast that with someone who lives in Iowa. You can drive for days in any direction and not leave the US. You live in a huge country with lots of geographical and cultural variety. Your country is wealthy enough that you'd never go abroad for your job or education unless you were explicitly trying to see the world. Learning another language is wonderful and enriching, but there's no real economic reason to. And there's no doubt in your mind that your country is safe from foreign powers. I'm not saying "let's all be ignorant of other people," but for many Americans, awareness of other countries is like a gold star of educational achievement, not an everyday necessity. I was eager to expand my horizons, but for many people that's just not on their priority list. And besides, some people are just not curious about anything.
- jbooth 16y ago
  I think a lot of the beef with "typical Americans" is with your last type. If you get off the coasts you can find a whole bunch of Americans who are seemingly proud of not knowing anything about the rest of the world.
  - jwhitlark 16y ago
    Not surprising when you consider that most people came here to get away from something, (poverty, repression, etc.) For no small number of Americans, the rest of the world is a proxy for "that place my ancestors left because it sucked ". The US was isolationist before it got dragged into the world wars, and has become interventionist not because it's interested in conquest, but because the past century has taught it to fear what happens when it's not.
jwhitlark 16y ago
It might be helpful to remember that historically, most people who came to America as a chance to start over and leave the past behind. People who were doing well usually didn't migrate to the US. In my family, the men's of "We were kicked around until we came here, then we did well," is very strong. So much so, that I'm the first one to travel internationally, except for military service.
- FraaJad 16y ago
  I really get what you are saying. Most of the recent immigrants to US from India are "economic" immigrants who have no bones with their motherland. They just came to a place with more headroom. So, a lot of Indians are not eager to get rid of their cultural identities as fast as many European immigrants.
- jwhitlark 16y ago
  s/men's/meme/g (Damn autocorrect)

by FraaJad 16y ago

smanek 16y ago

America is special. We're special for a lot of reasons, including 'soft power' (e.g., the most watched movies in the world are from America), 'hard power' (our military is more powerful and more likely to be used than any other plausible combination of nations I can think of), and economic power (our GDP is on par with the entire European Union. It is significantly larger than Brazil, Russia, India, and China's combined). For these reasons, most every educated person in the world knows more about America than almost any other country (excluding their own and a handful of neighbors). I don't understand why a citizen of country X is surprised that most Americans don't know much more about X, than they they themselves do about Country Y (where Y is roughly of equal importance as X, but is on the other side of the world). I've met Brits who were insulted that I only know who their Prime Minister is and what the major parties are, while they are familiar with the intricacies of American politics (upcoming elections, controversies, major players in each party, etc). Yet, they almost always know absolutely nothing about Brazilian politics (while I also know Brazil's major parties and President). Why is it so difficult to understand that, to an American, British politics are about as important as Brazilian politics are to a Brit?

alextp 16y ago
> For these reasons, most every educated person in the world knows more about America than almost any other country (excluding their own and a handful of neighbors) At least in brazil people seem to know more about america than the rest of the country, specially in the richer and more educated regions in the south and southwest. Everyone I talk to is far more likely to know who is the president of the US or the governor of california than who is the governor of Piauí or the vice-president of brazil.
FraaJad 16y ago
Nothing that I can disagree with. And that's one reason why I have become a little bit of an American myself by not giving a hoot about what Americans think about India.
nooneelse 16y ago
I think that "country X vs Y" stuff is much of why, when an American is ignorant about facets of another country/culture, they don't default to feeling like they are in some way at fault for that ignorance. That isn't the same thing as being proud of their ignorance (which is around in America, but much less common than one might fear), it is a reasonable position to have. Any time spent learning about the details of some other culture/country is time not spent on learning about another. Faced with the abundance of sets of details to learn, and with little to make one country/culture's set of details stand out as the one an American might want to learn, lack of self-recrimination is a pretty healthy response. Maybe it would seem more polite if American's made like they were embarrassed about the ignorance when it comes up, but that would go against being honest.
- smanek 16y ago
  My point is that Indians (for example) aren't embarrassed by their ignorance about Brazil (for example), but expect Americans to be embarrassed by their ignorance of India.

_delirium 16y ago

Many time they are not even ready to acknowledge that things can and often are done better outside their own country. The sense of NIH is very strong. I agree with this, but I haven't actually been to a country that wasn't like that. Certainly here in Denmark, many Danes are quite certain that Denmark is run better than any other place. ;-)

psykotic 16y ago
I am Danish but "left" the country 7-8 years ago. The last few months I've been back to prepare for my move to the US, which will be my second time living and working there. It's remarkable how absurd the Danish world-view appears to me now after living abroad in several very different cultures. The social welfare system is more attractive than ever, but the provincialism, the we-are-the-best attitude, and the subtle and overt xenophobia is staggering. One thing I realized with some sadness on this most recent stay is that I doubt I will ever able to move back, if only because the woman I plan to marry would be treated as a second-rate human being.
- yequalsx 16y ago
  I'm American but grew up in the Canal Zone. I've been in Germany a lot the past two years. My girlfriend is German and lives in Berlin. My impression is that Germans really do believe they are the best. They will never say so publicly but deep down they really believe it. My girlfriend's dad joked about Americans and hamburgers. I offered to make him one since he'd never had one. He emphatically said no. I'm a picky eater and hate cabbage. I politely declined to try some of his dishes because of the cabbage thing. He asked if Americans were always unwilling to try new things. I pointed out that he wouldn't try a hamburger and he got upset. He didn't see it as hypocritical. (It didn't bother me that he didn't want to try one. I don't care what people are or aren't willing to eat.) There were other things and then it dawned on me. He really thinks his was is the best and can't understand how someone would think differently. He was in the Wehrmacht and his attitudes gave me a creepy feeling. I know this is anecdotal but I've gotten this impression from many Germans of different ages. Germans think they are better. It cracks me up when I hear Germans talking about American arrogance.

ido 16y ago

I don't know where in India you are, but I've spent 2 months there and have encountered my share of educated Indians who, for example, didn't know where or what Austria is or that Israel has a lot of Jewish people in it (or even what Jews are). Another example off the top of my head was an educated engineer (who went to graduate school) who didn't know what the Roman Empire was. All of these examples or equivalents never manifested themselves when I was in the US. Many (upper class) Indians are extremely ignorant about the world outside of India.

hessenwolf 16y ago
India is a bit like America in the fact that it is huge and multicultural, and you do not need to leave in order to travel, in my experience. (incidentally, from Ireland, I must admit I had met and drank beer with several Israelis years before I knew anything about the whole Jewish thing. It's pretty easy to ignore history & geography when you are younger.)
FraaJad 16y ago
I'm from Bangalore. I know about Austria (and it's infamous son), Israel and it's formative years and it's current influence on my country and middle east. Also, as a South Indian, I know that Jews have lived in my part of the country for nearly two thousand years. Of course, I may be atypical. My point is that I'm yet to meet atypical people like myself in US even in handfuls after three years of living here and travelling to many big cities.
- ido 16y ago
  I am surprised to hear that, since my 2 visits to the US were much briefer than the time you spent there and I have met many such people.

billybob 16y ago

Speaking as an American who has spent time in Mexico, Spain and Ireland, and has traveled to southeast Asia: yes, Americans do sometimes have an arrogant view of the world. On the other hand, knowing about other countries doesn't come as naturally here. If you live in Europe, you can take an overnight train ride to any one of a dozen countries, with whom you share a currency and often a closely-related language. An extreme example is Andorra, nested between Spain and France, where even before the Euro, they were too small to bother having their own currency, and natives basically can't get by without speaking French, Spain and Catalan, at a minimum. Contrast that with someone who lives in Iowa. You can drive for days in any direction and not leave the US. You live in a huge country with lots of geographical and cultural variety. Your country is wealthy enough that you'd never go abroad for your job or education unless you were explicitly trying to see the world. Learning another language is wonderful and enriching, but there's no real economic reason to. And there's no doubt in your mind that your country is safe from foreign powers. I'm not saying "let's all be ignorant of other people," but for many Americans, awareness of other countries is like a gold star of educational achievement, not an everyday necessity. I was eager to expand my horizons, but for many people that's just not on their priority list. And besides, some people are just not curious about anything.

jbooth 16y ago
I think a lot of the beef with "typical Americans" is with your last type. If you get off the coasts you can find a whole bunch of Americans who are seemingly proud of not knowing anything about the rest of the world.
- jwhitlark 16y ago
  Not surprising when you consider that most people came here to get away from something, (poverty, repression, etc.) For no small number of Americans, the rest of the world is a proxy for "that place my ancestors left because it sucked ". The US was isolationist before it got dragged into the world wars, and has become interventionist not because it's interested in conquest, but because the past century has taught it to fear what happens when it's not.

jwhitlark 16y ago

It might be helpful to remember that historically, most people who came to America as a chance to start over and leave the past behind. People who were doing well usually didn't migrate to the US. In my family, the men's of "We were kicked around until we came here, then we did well," is very strong. So much so, that I'm the first one to travel internationally, except for military service.

FraaJad 16y ago
I really get what you are saying. Most of the recent immigrants to US from India are "economic" immigrants who have no bones with their motherland. They just came to a place with more headroom. So, a lot of Indians are not eager to get rid of their cultural identities as fast as many European immigrants.
jwhitlark 16y ago
s/men's/meme/g (Damn autocorrect)