4 ms·

Am I the only one who thinks there's way too much similarity between the the RIAA's "Save the artists" screeching, and the "design industry's" "Save the artists

by larrik 16y ago

Am I the only one who thinks there's way too much similarity between the the RIAA's "Save the artists" screeching, and the "design industry's" "Save the artists" screeching? Your existing business model is disappearing, and your cartel isn't going to stop it. Sucks for you. (BTW, my wife is a graphic designer, so make of that what you will)

tseabrooks 16y ago
This was kind of my thinking regarding sites like eLance and 99designs. When I first saw them I thought they were a great way to connect with designers that have more modest salary expectations. Though there are a handful of problems with these services, you just have to decide if the problems are worth the savings. But I've been really disappointed by the huge backlash against these types of sites from the designers. There have been a few anti-99designs articles on HN recently and the attitude is like the massive IT outsourcing panics from a while back. The outsourcing came it changed some things but talented people still have jobs. Designers just have to realize the people working for free, or the outsourced design work, aren't their competition. It isn't work they are losing out on, rather it's work they would never have gotten because some people have small budgets, and that's fine. I think there is plenty of work for everyone without crapping on the design outsourcing (crowdsourcing) industry.
- justinph 16y ago
  As a designer, when an org comes to me and says "we have $[laughably small amount] to spend on this website", I point them to WooThemes and tell them to pick one out. I'm happy to sit down with them for a few hours and do some basic work, but put the burden on them. It works great for me, because I get to do a little design education, still get paid, and focus my time on more lucrative projects. It also can pay dividends when clients come back to me later for more work or other design changes. To put it in a more uncouth way, 99Designs and WooThemes take the pain-in-the-ass clients and get them out of the way. I don't see it as a bad thing. I just wish I had come up with the idea first.
  - ladon86 16y ago
    Why don't you make your own little stable of design templates and sell them to these pain-in-the-ass clients on a non-exclusive basis? Later on you can charge more if they want it personalised.
tzs 16y ago
First they came for the musician's business model, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a musician. Then they came for the designer's business model, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a designer. ...
- danenania 16y ago
  Then they came for my business model. So I found a new one instead of bitching.
roc 16y ago
Hopefully. Because at any level of abstraction below 'high orbit', the comparison completely fails. The most important and glaring difference that your abstraction completely ignores, is that the RIAA's audience is governments and their goal is to see laws enacted that will have wide ranging impact on music and computing. Designers' audience is would-be customers and other designers. Their goal is educating customers on the difference between a $100 logo and an identity package that costs orders of magnitude more, and educating other designers on the impact of trying to compete with the $100 logo on price. Designers have no cartel. They have no legal/lobbying arm. They've never controlled distribution or access. They've never been multiply convicted of illegal vertical integration and horizontal collusion. They aren't trying to see your rights legislated away to protect the comfortable industry monopoly they have never had.
webwright 16y ago
"Your existing business model is disappearing". No, it's not. It's changing-- just like programming. Non-consultative design is eminently outsource-able. Many many businesses can thrive with a "good enough" logo or site theme from 99Designs or PageForest... Just like most businesses can thrive with Drupal or WordPress for most of their needs (supported by a $15/hr offshore developer) instead of hiring a programmer. If you're a designer or a developer, your best protection is being good at solving Hard Problems(tm) that are Core to the Business. A Bed and Breakfast will never hire an expensive resource for their logo or contact form. But they WILL buy nice mattresses and sheets. A startup will go to great lengths to buy a crappy used desk on Craigslist for pennies, but will generally NOT skimp on developers or product design if they can help it. The days of getting paid $95/hr for making something pretty or simple form/database work are coming to an end. But the opportunity for designer/developers who can demonstrably help sales/revenue are EXPLODING.
panacea 16y ago
Do you believe papering over the poorly received GUI change by suggesting "anyone have any better ideas?" as a PR exercise is a bold new future in sourcing design work? To me it looks like fail piled on top of fail. If Skype manages to get a successful new GUI out of crowdsourcing then your argument might demonstrate some validity. Your comparison is pretty shite. The RIAA is trying to maintain a cartel of middle-man promotional leverage. A call by designers to designers to not debase your professional leverage by giving your skills away for free is an entirely different kettle of fish.

by larrik 16y ago

tseabrooks 16y ago

This was kind of my thinking regarding sites like eLance and 99designs. When I first saw them I thought they were a great way to connect with designers that have more modest salary expectations. Though there are a handful of problems with these services, you just have to decide if the problems are worth the savings. But I've been really disappointed by the huge backlash against these types of sites from the designers. There have been a few anti-99designs articles on HN recently and the attitude is like the massive IT outsourcing panics from a while back. The outsourcing came it changed some things but talented people still have jobs. Designers just have to realize the people working for free, or the outsourced design work, aren't their competition. It isn't work they are losing out on, rather it's work they would never have gotten because some people have small budgets, and that's fine. I think there is plenty of work for everyone without crapping on the design outsourcing (crowdsourcing) industry.

justinph 16y ago
As a designer, when an org comes to me and says "we have $[laughably small amount] to spend on this website", I point them to WooThemes and tell them to pick one out. I'm happy to sit down with them for a few hours and do some basic work, but put the burden on them. It works great for me, because I get to do a little design education, still get paid, and focus my time on more lucrative projects. It also can pay dividends when clients come back to me later for more work or other design changes. To put it in a more uncouth way, 99Designs and WooThemes take the pain-in-the-ass clients and get them out of the way. I don't see it as a bad thing. I just wish I had come up with the idea first.
- ladon86 16y ago
  Why don't you make your own little stable of design templates and sell them to these pain-in-the-ass clients on a non-exclusive basis? Later on you can charge more if they want it personalised.

tzs 16y ago

First they came for the musician's business model, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a musician. Then they came for the designer's business model, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a designer. ...

danenania 16y ago
Then they came for my business model. So I found a new one instead of bitching.

roc 16y ago

Hopefully. Because at any level of abstraction below 'high orbit', the comparison completely fails. The most important and glaring difference that your abstraction completely ignores, is that the RIAA's audience is governments and their goal is to see laws enacted that will have wide ranging impact on music and computing. Designers' audience is would-be customers and other designers. Their goal is educating customers on the difference between a $100 logo and an identity package that costs orders of magnitude more, and educating other designers on the impact of trying to compete with the $100 logo on price. Designers have no cartel. They have no legal/lobbying arm. They've never controlled distribution or access. They've never been multiply convicted of illegal vertical integration and horizontal collusion. They aren't trying to see your rights legislated away to protect the comfortable industry monopoly they have never had.

webwright 16y ago

"Your existing business model is disappearing". No, it's not. It's changing-- just like programming. Non-consultative design is eminently outsource-able. Many many businesses can thrive with a "good enough" logo or site theme from 99Designs or PageForest... Just like most businesses can thrive with Drupal or WordPress for most of their needs (supported by a $15/hr offshore developer) instead of hiring a programmer. If you're a designer or a developer, your best protection is being good at solving Hard Problems(tm) that are Core to the Business. A Bed and Breakfast will never hire an expensive resource for their logo or contact form. But they WILL buy nice mattresses and sheets. A startup will go to great lengths to buy a crappy used desk on Craigslist for pennies, but will generally NOT skimp on developers or product design if they can help it. The days of getting paid $95/hr for making something pretty or simple form/database work are coming to an end. But the opportunity for designer/developers who can demonstrably help sales/revenue are EXPLODING.

panacea 16y ago

Do you believe papering over the poorly received GUI change by suggesting "anyone have any better ideas?" as a PR exercise is a bold new future in sourcing design work? To me it looks like fail piled on top of fail. If Skype manages to get a successful new GUI out of crowdsourcing then your argument might demonstrate some validity. Your comparison is pretty shite. The RIAA is trying to maintain a cartel of middle-man promotional leverage. A call by designers to designers to not debase your professional leverage by giving your skills away for free is an entirely different kettle of fish.