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> You don't reprogram your immune system based on that Yet HN clearly did reprogram their system, by requiring a minimum karma before an account is able to use

> You don't reprogram your immune system based on that Yet HN clearly did reprogram their system, by requiring a minimum karma before an account is able to use the downvote button, and not allowing users to downvote replies to their comments, instead of just working like Reddit. What was the reason for that? Someone seems to have recognized the downsides of allowing everyone to bury comments, and made an attempt to limit that. That limit is no longer effective, as often seen in the drive-by downvoting on divisive topics and the burial of facts if somebody doesn’t like them. As the total number of HN users increases it becomes easier for all accounts to reach that minimum karma, e.g. by posting funny comments (HN is not immune to memes) and riding on bandwagons.

dang 6y ago
That karma limit has been in place for 10 years or more. As I said, this discussion circulates endlessly; if you use HN Search you will find that all of these concerns/complaints go back to the beginning of the site. People have passionate, conflicting views about how downvoting should work, and commonly feel like the site is deteriorating because it doesn't work the way they would design it.
- Razengan 6y ago
  > * That karma limit has been in place for 10 years or more.* But what was the reason? What is it supposed to achieve or prevent? > As I said, this discussion circulates endlessly That sounds like a reason to address this, instead of ignoring it. “People keep talking about it so let’s leave it the way it is”?
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    Good moderation is inherently tolerant of some friction and seeming imperfections. Trying to craft some Perfect social climate leads to horrifyingly draconian and oppressive stuff. I'm here for the life-giving, messy breath of fresh air not found in most online spaces. The reality is that moderation is about helping people tolerate people unlike themselves and about buffering the worst communication gaffs. But beneath it all, sometimes people are just grumpy or mean and there is no fixing that. You can only mitigate the worst expressions of it, not stamp it out. Right now, there's a Pandemic on. The world generally is pretty cranky and wanting to insist on someone fixing Something so they can feel like their world isn't spinning out of control. Members successfully bullying mods into fiddling with voting rules in a short-sighted manner to get some momentary sense of control in life isn't going to fix the pandemic. It's just going to undermine long-standing best practices for a well-run forum.
  - dang 6y ago
    You're assuming that it's possible to satisfy everybody. It isn't. For one thing the different requests are contradictory amongst themselves. One must make design choices. I think HN's design choices in this area are good and I've not heard sufficiently good reasons to change them. Not everyone agrees, but everybody will never agree.
    - Razengan 6y ago
      > I think HN's design choices in this area are good and I've not heard sufficiently good reasons to change them. I find it hard to believe that in a discussion which supposedly “goes back to the beginning of the site” you haven’t heard sufficient reasons yet. I’ve often thought about gathering a collection of comments that were perfectly reasonable, well-behaved and factual, but still grayed out because somebody didn’t like them. (It takes, what, just 2 or 3 downvotes to make a comment practically invisible.) Perhaps enough such examples would be sufficient to recognize that there is a problem.
      - dang 6y ago
        Sure, if you make such a list I'd be interested to see it. Btw, if a comment is faded and you're having trouble reading it, you can click on its timestamp to go to its page, and in that case it should be rendered normally.
      - runawaybottle 6y ago
        For what it’s worth, your comment is graying out as we speak.

dang 6y ago

That karma limit has been in place for 10 years or more. As I said, this discussion circulates endlessly; if you use HN Search you will find that all of these concerns/complaints go back to the beginning of the site. People have passionate, conflicting views about how downvoting should work, and commonly feel like the site is deteriorating because it doesn't work the way they would design it.

Razengan 6y ago
> * That karma limit has been in place for 10 years or more.* But what was the reason? What is it supposed to achieve or prevent? > As I said, this discussion circulates endlessly That sounds like a reason to address this, instead of ignoring it. “People keep talking about it so let’s leave it the way it is”?
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  Good moderation is inherently tolerant of some friction and seeming imperfections. Trying to craft some Perfect social climate leads to horrifyingly draconian and oppressive stuff. I'm here for the life-giving, messy breath of fresh air not found in most online spaces. The reality is that moderation is about helping people tolerate people unlike themselves and about buffering the worst communication gaffs. But beneath it all, sometimes people are just grumpy or mean and there is no fixing that. You can only mitigate the worst expressions of it, not stamp it out. Right now, there's a Pandemic on. The world generally is pretty cranky and wanting to insist on someone fixing Something so they can feel like their world isn't spinning out of control. Members successfully bullying mods into fiddling with voting rules in a short-sighted manner to get some momentary sense of control in life isn't going to fix the pandemic. It's just going to undermine long-standing best practices for a well-run forum.
- dang 6y ago
  You're assuming that it's possible to satisfy everybody. It isn't. For one thing the different requests are contradictory amongst themselves. One must make design choices. I think HN's design choices in this area are good and I've not heard sufficiently good reasons to change them. Not everyone agrees, but everybody will never agree.
  - Razengan 6y ago
    > I think HN's design choices in this area are good and I've not heard sufficiently good reasons to change them. I find it hard to believe that in a discussion which supposedly “goes back to the beginning of the site” you haven’t heard sufficient reasons yet. I’ve often thought about gathering a collection of comments that were perfectly reasonable, well-behaved and factual, but still grayed out because somebody didn’t like them. (It takes, what, just 2 or 3 downvotes to make a comment practically invisible.) Perhaps enough such examples would be sufficient to recognize that there is a problem.
    - dang 6y ago
      Sure, if you make such a list I'd be interested to see it. Btw, if a comment is faded and you're having trouble reading it, you can click on its timestamp to go to its page, and in that case it should be rendered normally.
    - runawaybottle 6y ago
      For what it’s worth, your comment is graying out as we speak.