5 ms·

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that there's noone on earth who grew up in one country, moved to another one, and managed to completely forget about sal

by jbooth 16y ago

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that there's noone on earth who grew up in one country, moved to another one, and managed to completely forget about salient facts like the poverty level in their original country.

capstone 16y ago
People tend to forge their identities when they feel inadequate about their past. As an immigrant privy to no Americans present get-togethers, I see it all the time. The same people who lump all Southerners or Midwesterners into a overweight, bible thumping yokel stereotype, will froth at the mouth about Americans' ignorance of latest political discourse in their small corner of the world. People from predominantly white countries will claim that the US is less cultured because there is too much brown immigration. People who didn't have toilet paper back home will talk about the lack of museums. And so on and so forth. My personal observation is, the majority tend to forget all the bad and remember all the good about their former home, and conversely, pick out all the bad and none of the good of their new home. It may be hard for you to believe because you are a rationalist, but it's very common.
- jbooth 16y ago
  Well, I'd never claim to be so rational as to have excluded emotionally-self-serving reason entirely. I just thought the original post came across as having the same sort of stereotypes that it decried, so responded with a little snark. :)
  - capstone 16y ago
    Well, I've often liked your posts so I presumed you are a rationalist. Let me keep my delusions, please!
yummyfajitas 16y ago
I'm going to go out on a limb and say you maybe don't know that many people from overseas. My Iranian ex girlfriend often liked to point out how Americans are ignorant of other nations and their cultures. Her most common criticism is that Americans didn't know a lot about the occupation of Palestine. Strangely, she seemed more or less unaware of Iran and Iraq's occupation of Kurdistan, and was only peripherally aware of Iran's occupation of Baluchistan [1]. I've similarly met South Americans, and even one Indian (!), who made serious comparisons between US poverty and true poverty. You can only make a comparison like that if you forget what true poverty really is. [1] This was only by chance - her uncle got sent there as part of his term of forced labor in the army.
- jbooth 16y ago
  Careful, that limb might be thin. I live in NYC, remember? Just looked around my immediate office, there are 4 people from 3 different countries within 10 feet of me. (well, one of them's out today, so 3 from 2 countries unless we expand that radius to 30 feet, but you know). They all know the difference between 1st and 3rd world. Most Americans do have quite a slanted and often factually incorrect view on the situation in Palestine (been there, seen the wall, the checkpoints, the very blatant racism and the total lack of opportunity). Not to say that the typical Iranian is likely much more enlightened on the subject, but someone else being dumb doesn't make you smarter. (also, on your tu quoque in regards to Iran, there's not a lot to defend about that country but at least they give equal legal status to all people within their borders, kurdish or baluchi). Any viewpoint that starts off with "Americans are so much more enlightened than any other nationality" is probably an extremely unenlightened view, is all I'm saying. The chinese guy upthread got it better than I did.
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    Any viewpoint that starts off with "Americans are so much more enlightened than any other nationality" is probably an extremely unenlightened view, is all I'm saying. I'm not taking this view at all. I'm just pointing out that while the direction of ignorance varies widely, the magnitude varies less. People are lazy, and ignorance is the result of laziness. I don't think the US is particularly exceptional in this regard.
  - mrdodge 16y ago
    "(also, on your tu quoque in regards to Iran, there's not a lot to defend about that country but at least they give equal legal status to all people within their borders, kurdish or baluch" Try being Baha'i in Iran. I know several refugees from Iran who would vehemently disagree with your statement.
    - jbooth 16y ago
      Baha'i's a religious status, not an ethnic status. Not that I'm defending religious discrimination or anything, but that's orthogonal to the point I was making about treatment of occupied ethnic substates. Points taken that discrimination exists everywhere, is officially sanctioned many places, and certainly that the islamic republic isn't the model state.
alextp 16y ago
It is surprisingly easy to forget about poverty if you live shielded from it. You see a lot of this in brazillian urban upper-middle class, specially in the south.

by jbooth 16y ago

capstone 16y ago

People tend to forge their identities when they feel inadequate about their past. As an immigrant privy to no Americans present get-togethers, I see it all the time. The same people who lump all Southerners or Midwesterners into a overweight, bible thumping yokel stereotype, will froth at the mouth about Americans' ignorance of latest political discourse in their small corner of the world. People from predominantly white countries will claim that the US is less cultured because there is too much brown immigration. People who didn't have toilet paper back home will talk about the lack of museums. And so on and so forth. My personal observation is, the majority tend to forget all the bad and remember all the good about their former home, and conversely, pick out all the bad and none of the good of their new home. It may be hard for you to believe because you are a rationalist, but it's very common.

jbooth 16y ago
Well, I'd never claim to be so rational as to have excluded emotionally-self-serving reason entirely. I just thought the original post came across as having the same sort of stereotypes that it decried, so responded with a little snark. :)
- capstone 16y ago
  Well, I've often liked your posts so I presumed you are a rationalist. Let me keep my delusions, please!

yummyfajitas 16y ago

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you maybe don't know that many people from overseas. My Iranian ex girlfriend often liked to point out how Americans are ignorant of other nations and their cultures. Her most common criticism is that Americans didn't know a lot about the occupation of Palestine. Strangely, she seemed more or less unaware of Iran and Iraq's occupation of Kurdistan, and was only peripherally aware of Iran's occupation of Baluchistan [1]. I've similarly met South Americans, and even one Indian (!), who made serious comparisons between US poverty and true poverty. You can only make a comparison like that if you forget what true poverty really is. [1] This was only by chance - her uncle got sent there as part of his term of forced labor in the army.

jbooth 16y ago
Careful, that limb might be thin. I live in NYC, remember? Just looked around my immediate office, there are 4 people from 3 different countries within 10 feet of me. (well, one of them's out today, so 3 from 2 countries unless we expand that radius to 30 feet, but you know). They all know the difference between 1st and 3rd world. Most Americans do have quite a slanted and often factually incorrect view on the situation in Palestine (been there, seen the wall, the checkpoints, the very blatant racism and the total lack of opportunity). Not to say that the typical Iranian is likely much more enlightened on the subject, but someone else being dumb doesn't make you smarter. (also, on your tu quoque in regards to Iran, there's not a lot to defend about that country but at least they give equal legal status to all people within their borders, kurdish or baluchi). Any viewpoint that starts off with "Americans are so much more enlightened than any other nationality" is probably an extremely unenlightened view, is all I'm saying. The chinese guy upthread got it better than I did.
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  Any viewpoint that starts off with "Americans are so much more enlightened than any other nationality" is probably an extremely unenlightened view, is all I'm saying. I'm not taking this view at all. I'm just pointing out that while the direction of ignorance varies widely, the magnitude varies less. People are lazy, and ignorance is the result of laziness. I don't think the US is particularly exceptional in this regard.
- mrdodge 16y ago
  "(also, on your tu quoque in regards to Iran, there's not a lot to defend about that country but at least they give equal legal status to all people within their borders, kurdish or baluch" Try being Baha'i in Iran. I know several refugees from Iran who would vehemently disagree with your statement.
  - jbooth 16y ago
    Baha'i's a religious status, not an ethnic status. Not that I'm defending religious discrimination or anything, but that's orthogonal to the point I was making about treatment of occupied ethnic substates. Points taken that discrimination exists everywhere, is officially sanctioned many places, and certainly that the islamic republic isn't the model state.

alextp 16y ago

It is surprisingly easy to forget about poverty if you live shielded from it. You see a lot of this in brazillian urban upper-middle class, specially in the south.