8 ms·

"Be patient if Americans are ignorant of some aspect about your home country. Use the opportunity to educate and share, just do so in a polite and brief manner.

by dr_ 16y ago

"Be patient if Americans are ignorant of some aspect about your home country. Use the opportunity to educate and share, just do so in a polite and brief manner." Citizens of other countries always like to point out how Americans are ignorant of other nations and their cultures, oftentimes failing to realize that within their own nation poverty is rampant and the majority of the population remains illiterate (yes, although I was born American my ethnic background comes from one of these such nations). Yet because of our standing in the world as a superpower, and because so many people from so many countries end up moving here - we are expected to be experts on the cultural sensitivities of all these countries. Americans are more open and willing to learn, I find, than pretty much any people anywhere in the world.

jbooth 16y ago
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that there's noone on earth who grew up in one country, moved to another one, and managed to completely forget about salient facts like the poverty level in their original country.
- capstone 16y ago
  People tend to forge their identities when they feel inadequate about their past. As an immigrant privy to no Americans present get-togethers, I see it all the time. The same people who lump all Southerners or Midwesterners into a overweight, bible thumping yokel stereotype, will froth at the mouth about Americans' ignorance of latest political discourse in their small corner of the world. People from predominantly white countries will claim that the US is less cultured because there is too much brown immigration. People who didn't have toilet paper back home will talk about the lack of museums. And so on and so forth. My personal observation is, the majority tend to forget all the bad and remember all the good about their former home, and conversely, pick out all the bad and none of the good of their new home. It may be hard for you to believe because you are a rationalist, but it's very common.
  - jbooth 16y ago
    Well, I'd never claim to be so rational as to have excluded emotionally-self-serving reason entirely. I just thought the original post came across as having the same sort of stereotypes that it decried, so responded with a little snark. :)
    - capstone 16y ago
      Well, I've often liked your posts so I presumed you are a rationalist. Let me keep my delusions, please!
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  I'm going to go out on a limb and say you maybe don't know that many people from overseas. My Iranian ex girlfriend often liked to point out how Americans are ignorant of other nations and their cultures. Her most common criticism is that Americans didn't know a lot about the occupation of Palestine. Strangely, she seemed more or less unaware of Iran and Iraq's occupation of Kurdistan, and was only peripherally aware of Iran's occupation of Baluchistan [1]. I've similarly met South Americans, and even one Indian (!), who made serious comparisons between US poverty and true poverty. You can only make a comparison like that if you forget what true poverty really is. [1] This was only by chance - her uncle got sent there as part of his term of forced labor in the army.
  - jbooth 16y ago
    Careful, that limb might be thin. I live in NYC, remember? Just looked around my immediate office, there are 4 people from 3 different countries within 10 feet of me. (well, one of them's out today, so 3 from 2 countries unless we expand that radius to 30 feet, but you know). They all know the difference between 1st and 3rd world. Most Americans do have quite a slanted and often factually incorrect view on the situation in Palestine (been there, seen the wall, the checkpoints, the very blatant racism and the total lack of opportunity). Not to say that the typical Iranian is likely much more enlightened on the subject, but someone else being dumb doesn't make you smarter. (also, on your tu quoque in regards to Iran, there's not a lot to defend about that country but at least they give equal legal status to all people within their borders, kurdish or baluchi). Any viewpoint that starts off with "Americans are so much more enlightened than any other nationality" is probably an extremely unenlightened view, is all I'm saying. The chinese guy upthread got it better than I did.
    - yummyfajitas 16y ago
      Any viewpoint that starts off with "Americans are so much more enlightened than any other nationality" is probably an extremely unenlightened view, is all I'm saying. I'm not taking this view at all. I'm just pointing out that while the direction of ignorance varies widely, the magnitude varies less. People are lazy, and ignorance is the result of laziness. I don't think the US is particularly exceptional in this regard.
- alextp 16y ago
  It is surprisingly easy to forget about poverty if you live shielded from it. You see a lot of this in brazillian urban upper-middle class, specially in the south.
FraaJad 16y ago
I agree with you. My own "disappointment" is not with 'regular joe' Americans, but with educated Americans. Being from a large city in India, I know from personal experience that majority of the people with college education, especially technical education are knowledgeable about things outside their own country at least in a conversational level, if not they want to know more. I cannot assume the same with Americans. I felt astonished that people who have degrees from top technical universities have lop sided and often dated views of the rest of world. Many time they are not even ready to acknowledge that things can and often are done better outside their own country. The sense of NIH is very strong.
- smanek 16y ago
  America is special. We're special for a lot of reasons, including 'soft power' (e.g., the most watched movies in the world are from America), 'hard power' (our military is more powerful and more likely to be used than any other plausible combination of nations I can think of), and economic power (our GDP is on par with the entire European Union. It is significantly larger than Brazil, Russia, India, and China's combined). For these reasons, most every educated person in the world knows more about America than almost any other country (excluding their own and a handful of neighbors). I don't understand why a citizen of country X is surprised that most Americans don't know much more about X, than they they themselves do about Country Y (where Y is roughly of equal importance as X, but is on the other side of the world). I've met Brits who were insulted that I only know who their Prime Minister is and what the major parties are, while they are familiar with the intricacies of American politics (upcoming elections, controversies, major players in each party, etc). Yet, they almost always know absolutely nothing about Brazilian politics (while I also know Brazil's major parties and President). Why is it so difficult to understand that, to an American, British politics are about as important as Brazilian politics are to a Brit?
  - alextp 16y ago
    > For these reasons, most every educated person in the world knows more about America than almost any other country (excluding their own and a handful of neighbors) At least in brazil people seem to know more about america than the rest of the country, specially in the richer and more educated regions in the south and southwest. Everyone I talk to is far more likely to know who is the president of the US or the governor of california than who is the governor of Piauí or the vice-president of brazil.
wangwei 16y ago
Well, you certainly don't sound very open to me. No one expects you to be experts. It's just that some Americans regard America as the central of the universe and never bother to learn about the most basic facts about "the rest of the world". Many immigrants complain about the ignorance because some americans have ridiculous ,false or outdated stereotypical information about their countries. It's no doubt that America has the most intelligent people in the world but it is also not too hard to find a lot of arrogant and dumb people (maybe including you?). So just because they are from a mostly poor and illiterate country, and let's say if some americans assume they are hardcore communists if they are from china or they are terrorists if they are from a muslim country or that all indians smell curry, they don't have a right to be disappointed? What does it have to do with their poverty and all? I know you parents might fight and work very hard to escape their poor nation and come to america in order to give you a good life. Well,you are "American" now and seem to have totally forgotten your root. But at least have some respect. Don't be too arrogant.
- yequalsx 16y ago
  I think a lot of this has to do with the cultural starting point in the U.S. The idea of American exceptionalism is quite common amongst the political punditry. Say something often enough and it begins to get believed. There was a time when it was common amongst the Chinese intellectual class to think China was the best. In the 1400's Chinese emperors acquired a very anti-foreign attitude and Chinese exploration declined rapidly. Roman citizens thought Roman civilization was the best. My point is, imperial arrogance is common.
rajpaul 16y ago
The patients of foreigner isn't tested by what Americans don't know about their home country, it's tested by what Americans think they about foreigner's home country.
grammaton 16y ago
Personally I've always found it annoying when my countrymen are taken to task for being 'ignorant' of another country's culture. As I have to constantly point out to people from other countries - you're aware of so much in American politics because, like it or not, we're a (if not the) world super power right now. There's one (or a handful) of us, and hundreds of other countries. I can't be expected to be conversant in the politics and culture of all of them and still live my life. If someone insists on pressing the point, then I just pick a random country off the top of my head and ask them how much they know about it's culture and politics. Usually that gets the point across. I also like to flip it around and point out to them that we're a nation of 300 million people, more divided and complex than they usually realize - and I almost never have a problem getting that point across pretty quickly. Most people from other countries who think they know a lot about America don't know as much about us as they think they do. It's not that Americans don't want to learn about other countries - far from it. It's just that there are hundreds of them paying attention to us, and as citizens, we just can't individually return the favor and learn the ins and outs of all of them.

by dr_ 16y ago

jbooth 16y ago

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that there's noone on earth who grew up in one country, moved to another one, and managed to completely forget about salient facts like the poverty level in their original country.

capstone 16y ago
People tend to forge their identities when they feel inadequate about their past. As an immigrant privy to no Americans present get-togethers, I see it all the time. The same people who lump all Southerners or Midwesterners into a overweight, bible thumping yokel stereotype, will froth at the mouth about Americans' ignorance of latest political discourse in their small corner of the world. People from predominantly white countries will claim that the US is less cultured because there is too much brown immigration. People who didn't have toilet paper back home will talk about the lack of museums. And so on and so forth. My personal observation is, the majority tend to forget all the bad and remember all the good about their former home, and conversely, pick out all the bad and none of the good of their new home. It may be hard for you to believe because you are a rationalist, but it's very common.
- jbooth 16y ago
  Well, I'd never claim to be so rational as to have excluded emotionally-self-serving reason entirely. I just thought the original post came across as having the same sort of stereotypes that it decried, so responded with a little snark. :)
  - capstone 16y ago
    Well, I've often liked your posts so I presumed you are a rationalist. Let me keep my delusions, please!
yummyfajitas 16y ago
I'm going to go out on a limb and say you maybe don't know that many people from overseas. My Iranian ex girlfriend often liked to point out how Americans are ignorant of other nations and their cultures. Her most common criticism is that Americans didn't know a lot about the occupation of Palestine. Strangely, she seemed more or less unaware of Iran and Iraq's occupation of Kurdistan, and was only peripherally aware of Iran's occupation of Baluchistan [1]. I've similarly met South Americans, and even one Indian (!), who made serious comparisons between US poverty and true poverty. You can only make a comparison like that if you forget what true poverty really is. [1] This was only by chance - her uncle got sent there as part of his term of forced labor in the army.
- jbooth 16y ago
  Careful, that limb might be thin. I live in NYC, remember? Just looked around my immediate office, there are 4 people from 3 different countries within 10 feet of me. (well, one of them's out today, so 3 from 2 countries unless we expand that radius to 30 feet, but you know). They all know the difference between 1st and 3rd world. Most Americans do have quite a slanted and often factually incorrect view on the situation in Palestine (been there, seen the wall, the checkpoints, the very blatant racism and the total lack of opportunity). Not to say that the typical Iranian is likely much more enlightened on the subject, but someone else being dumb doesn't make you smarter. (also, on your tu quoque in regards to Iran, there's not a lot to defend about that country but at least they give equal legal status to all people within their borders, kurdish or baluchi). Any viewpoint that starts off with "Americans are so much more enlightened than any other nationality" is probably an extremely unenlightened view, is all I'm saying. The chinese guy upthread got it better than I did.
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    Any viewpoint that starts off with "Americans are so much more enlightened than any other nationality" is probably an extremely unenlightened view, is all I'm saying. I'm not taking this view at all. I'm just pointing out that while the direction of ignorance varies widely, the magnitude varies less. People are lazy, and ignorance is the result of laziness. I don't think the US is particularly exceptional in this regard.
alextp 16y ago
It is surprisingly easy to forget about poverty if you live shielded from it. You see a lot of this in brazillian urban upper-middle class, specially in the south.

FraaJad 16y ago

I agree with you. My own "disappointment" is not with 'regular joe' Americans, but with educated Americans. Being from a large city in India, I know from personal experience that majority of the people with college education, especially technical education are knowledgeable about things outside their own country at least in a conversational level, if not they want to know more. I cannot assume the same with Americans. I felt astonished that people who have degrees from top technical universities have lop sided and often dated views of the rest of world. Many time they are not even ready to acknowledge that things can and often are done better outside their own country. The sense of NIH is very strong.

smanek 16y ago
America is special. We're special for a lot of reasons, including 'soft power' (e.g., the most watched movies in the world are from America), 'hard power' (our military is more powerful and more likely to be used than any other plausible combination of nations I can think of), and economic power (our GDP is on par with the entire European Union. It is significantly larger than Brazil, Russia, India, and China's combined). For these reasons, most every educated person in the world knows more about America than almost any other country (excluding their own and a handful of neighbors). I don't understand why a citizen of country X is surprised that most Americans don't know much more about X, than they they themselves do about Country Y (where Y is roughly of equal importance as X, but is on the other side of the world). I've met Brits who were insulted that I only know who their Prime Minister is and what the major parties are, while they are familiar with the intricacies of American politics (upcoming elections, controversies, major players in each party, etc). Yet, they almost always know absolutely nothing about Brazilian politics (while I also know Brazil's major parties and President). Why is it so difficult to understand that, to an American, British politics are about as important as Brazilian politics are to a Brit?
- alextp 16y ago
  > For these reasons, most every educated person in the world knows more about America than almost any other country (excluding their own and a handful of neighbors) At least in brazil people seem to know more about america than the rest of the country, specially in the richer and more educated regions in the south and southwest. Everyone I talk to is far more likely to know who is the president of the US or the governor of california than who is the governor of Piauí or the vice-president of brazil.

wangwei 16y ago

Well, you certainly don't sound very open to me. No one expects you to be experts. It's just that some Americans regard America as the central of the universe and never bother to learn about the most basic facts about "the rest of the world". Many immigrants complain about the ignorance because some americans have ridiculous ,false or outdated stereotypical information about their countries. It's no doubt that America has the most intelligent people in the world but it is also not too hard to find a lot of arrogant and dumb people (maybe including you?). So just because they are from a mostly poor and illiterate country, and let's say if some americans assume they are hardcore communists if they are from china or they are terrorists if they are from a muslim country or that all indians smell curry, they don't have a right to be disappointed? What does it have to do with their poverty and all? I know you parents might fight and work very hard to escape their poor nation and come to america in order to give you a good life. Well,you are "American" now and seem to have totally forgotten your root. But at least have some respect. Don't be too arrogant.

yequalsx 16y ago
I think a lot of this has to do with the cultural starting point in the U.S. The idea of American exceptionalism is quite common amongst the political punditry. Say something often enough and it begins to get believed. There was a time when it was common amongst the Chinese intellectual class to think China was the best. In the 1400's Chinese emperors acquired a very anti-foreign attitude and Chinese exploration declined rapidly. Roman citizens thought Roman civilization was the best. My point is, imperial arrogance is common.

rajpaul 16y ago

The patients of foreigner isn't tested by what Americans don't know about their home country, it's tested by what Americans think they about foreigner's home country.

grammaton 16y ago

Personally I've always found it annoying when my countrymen are taken to task for being 'ignorant' of another country's culture. As I have to constantly point out to people from other countries - you're aware of so much in American politics because, like it or not, we're a (if not the) world super power right now. There's one (or a handful) of us, and hundreds of other countries. I can't be expected to be conversant in the politics and culture of all of them and still live my life. If someone insists on pressing the point, then I just pick a random country off the top of my head and ask them how much they know about it's culture and politics. Usually that gets the point across. I also like to flip it around and point out to them that we're a nation of 300 million people, more divided and complex than they usually realize - and I almost never have a problem getting that point across pretty quickly. Most people from other countries who think they know a lot about America don't know as much about us as they think they do. It's not that Americans don't want to learn about other countries - far from it. It's just that there are hundreds of them paying attention to us, and as citizens, we just can't individually return the favor and learn the ins and outs of all of them.