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Getting to Know Americans
- keiferski 16y agoEven as an American, I still love to read about others' views of America. A little narcissistic, maybe, but I think it's more like getting another pair of eyes on something you look at everyday.
- JoeAltmaier 16y agoIt took centuries to come to the point of introspection - anthropologists apparently label the normal American kinship system as Inuit or some such, because it wasn't until studying another culture that we recognized our own.
- robotron 16y agoLiving abroad, I can definitely see myself in a lot of this.
- dr_ 16y ago"Be patient if Americans are ignorant of some aspect about your home country. Use the opportunity to educate and share, just do so in a polite and brief manner." Citizens of other countries always like to point out how Americans are ignorant of other nations and their cultures, oftentimes failing to realize that within their own nation poverty is rampant and the majority of the population remains illiterate (yes, although I was born American my ethnic background comes from one of these such nations). Yet because of our standing in the world as a superpower, and because so many people from so many countries end up moving here - we are expected to be experts on the cultural sensitivities of all these countries. Americans are more open and willing to learn, I find, than pretty much any people anywhere in the world.
- jbooth 16y agoI'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that there's noone on earth who grew up in one country, moved to another one, and managed to completely forget about salient facts like the poverty level in their original country.
- capstone 16y agoPeople tend to forge their identities when they feel inadequate about their past. As an immigrant privy to no Americans present get-togethers, I see it all the time. The same people who lump all Southerners or Midwesterners into a overweight, bible thumping yokel stereotype, will froth at the mouth about Americans' ignorance of latest political discourse in their small corner of the world. People from predominantly white countries will claim that the US is less cultured because there is too much brown immigration. People who didn't have toilet paper back home will talk about the lack of museums. And so on and so forth. My personal observation is, the majority tend to forget all the bad and remember all the good about their former home, and conversely, pick out all the bad and none of the good of their new home. It may be hard for you to believe because you are a rationalist, but it's very common.
- jbooth 16y agoWell, I'd never claim to be so rational as to have excluded emotionally-self-serving reason entirely. I just thought the original post came across as having the same sort of stereotypes that it decried, so responded with a little snark. :)
- capstone 16y agoWell, I've often liked your posts so I presumed you are a rationalist. Let me keep my delusions, please!
- yummyfajitas 16y agoI'm going to go out on a limb and say you maybe don't know that many people from overseas. My Iranian ex girlfriend often liked to point out how Americans are ignorant of other nations and their cultures. Her most common criticism is that Americans didn't know a lot about the occupation of Palestine. Strangely, she seemed more or less unaware of Iran and Iraq's occupation of Kurdistan, and was only peripherally aware of Iran's occupation of Baluchistan [1]. I've similarly met South Americans, and even one Indian (!), who made serious comparisons between US poverty and true poverty. You can only make a comparison like that if you forget what true poverty really is. [1] This was only by chance - her uncle got sent there as part of his term of forced labor in the army.
- FraaJad 16y agoI agree with you. My own "disappointment" is not with 'regular joe' Americans, but with educated Americans. Being from a large city in India, I know from personal experience that majority of the people with college education, especially technical education are knowledgeable about things outside their own country at least in a conversational level, if not they want to know more. I cannot assume the same with Americans. I felt astonished that people who have degrees from top technical universities have lop sided and often dated views of the rest of world. Many time they are not even ready to acknowledge that things can and often are done better outside their own country. The sense of NIH is very strong.
- smanek 16y agoAmerica is special. We're special for a lot of reasons, including 'soft power' (e.g., the most watched movies in the world are from America), 'hard power' (our military is more powerful and more likely to be used than any other plausible combination of nations I can think of), and economic power (our GDP is on par with the entire European Union. It is significantly larger than Brazil, Russia, India, and China's combined). For these reasons, most every educated person in the world knows more about America than almost any other country (excluding their own and a handful of neighbors). I don't understand why a citizen of country X is surprised that most Americans don't know much more about X, than they they themselves do about Country Y (where Y is roughly of equal importance as X, but is on the other side of the world). I've met Brits who were insulted that I only know who their Prime Minister is and what the major parties are, while they are familiar with the intricacies of American politics (upcoming elections, controversies, major players in each party, etc). Yet, they almost always know absolutely nothing about Brazilian politics (while I also know Brazil's major parties and President). Why is it so difficult to understand that, to an American, British politics are about as important as Brazilian politics are to a Brit?
- alextp 16y ago> For these reasons, most every educated person in the world knows more about America than almost any other country (excluding their own and a handful of neighbors) At least in brazil people seem to know more about america than the rest of the country, specially in the richer and more educated regions in the south and southwest. Everyone I talk to is far more likely to know who is the president of the US or the governor of california than who is the governor of Piauí or the vice-president of brazil.
- wangwei 16y agoWell, you certainly don't sound very open to me. No one expects you to be experts. It's just that some Americans regard America as the central of the universe and never bother to learn about the most basic facts about "the rest of the world". Many immigrants complain about the ignorance because some americans have ridiculous ,false or outdated stereotypical information about their countries. It's no doubt that America has the most intelligent people in the world but it is also not too hard to find a lot of arrogant and dumb people (maybe including you?). So just because they are from a mostly poor and illiterate country, and let's say if some americans assume they are hardcore communists if they are from china or they are terrorists if they are from a muslim country or that all indians smell curry, they don't have a right to be disappointed? What does it have to do with their poverty and all? I know you parents might fight and work very hard to escape their poor nation and come to america in order to give you a good life. Well,you are "American" now and seem to have totally forgotten your root. But at least have some respect. Don't be too arrogant.
- yequalsx 16y agoI think a lot of this has to do with the cultural starting point in the U.S. The idea of American exceptionalism is quite common amongst the political punditry. Say something often enough and it begins to get believed. There was a time when it was common amongst the Chinese intellectual class to think China was the best. In the 1400's Chinese emperors acquired a very anti-foreign attitude and Chinese exploration declined rapidly. Roman citizens thought Roman civilization was the best. My point is, imperial arrogance is common.
- rajpaul 16y agoThe patients of foreigner isn't tested by what Americans don't know about their home country, it's tested by what Americans think they about foreigner's home country.
- grammaton 16y agoPersonally I've always found it annoying when my countrymen are taken to task for being 'ignorant' of another country's culture. As I have to constantly point out to people from other countries - you're aware of so much in American politics because, like it or not, we're a (if not the) world super power right now. There's one (or a handful) of us, and hundreds of other countries. I can't be expected to be conversant in the politics and culture of all of them and still live my life. If someone insists on pressing the point, then I just pick a random country off the top of my head and ask them how much they know about it's culture and politics. Usually that gets the point across. I also like to flip it around and point out to them that we're a nation of 300 million people, more divided and complex than they usually realize - and I almost never have a problem getting that point across pretty quickly. Most people from other countries who think they know a lot about America don't know as much about us as they think they do. It's not that Americans don't want to learn about other countries - far from it. It's just that there are hundreds of them paying attention to us, and as citizens, we just can't individually return the favor and learn the ins and outs of all of them.
- timinman 16y agoI'm sure this is great for immigrants , but it's just as useful for Americans, like myself living abroad. Before living overseas, I only understood a few vague general distinctions. Knowing your own peculiarities is a good starting point for adaptation. There's also a link from the page on 'Cultural Adaptation' with great content for anyone interfacing with a second culture.
- mtinkerhess 16y ago> Americans are taught that "all men are created equal." While they continually violate that idea in some aspects of life, in others they adhere to it. Boy, I wish more Americans understood that.
- Alex3917 16y agoMore accurately, Americans mostly adhere to the notion that "all men are equal" when it serves the interests of the top 1%. Voting, the military, taxes, college admissions, etc.
- JoeAltmaier 16y agoI'm not so cynical. Voting is supposed to be available to all; the military is a valued opportunity for many young folks with limited means; taxes are sometimes regressive but do follow a curve; rural youth in my area are admitted to colleges by merit. So "the top 1%" is probably not accurate.
- yummyfajitas 16y agoAmericans mostly adhere to the notion that "all men are equal" when it serves the interests of the top 1%....taxes... Really bad example. The US has the most progressive tax system of the entire OECD. The only countries that come close are Australia, Ireland and the Netherlands. http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/27134.html http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/27134.html Here is data on the top 1%. Specifically, they earn 20% of income in the US, but pay 38% of taxes. http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html I'm not sure why you believe the military gives preferences to the top 1%. As far as I'm aware, the military is strictly egalitarian (being based on fairly rigid performance criteria) with the sole exception of having racial and sexual preferences.
- Alex3917 16y ago"I'm not sure why you believe the military gives preferences to the top 1%. As far as I'm aware, the military is strictly egalitarian..." And that egalitarianism is partly used to hide the fact that the people dying, losing limbs, suffering traumatic brain injuries, etc., aren't the ones who are making billions of dollars from the war.
- davidw 16y ago"US Americans" ?!
- bhousel 16y agoAs it's a guide for international students at NYU, I think that's implied.
- crasshopper 16y agoSure, as opposed to Central Americans, South Americans, Mexicans, or Canadians. There is no estadounidenses in English but "Americans" logically includes Alaskans through Argentinians.
- davidw 16y agoReminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww I suppose it's technically correct, but it doesn't sound good at all. Especially since they already just used 'Americans' in the title. "People of the United States" or something like that also reads better. Sure, citizens of other countries in the Americas could also be called Americans, but in reality, if you're trying to actually communicate clearly with other people, rather than score political correctness points, you would not use that term for, say, a Canadian or a Brazilian, because there are already perfectly good, more specific terms for citizens of said countries. Likewise, if you were really trying to talk about the commonalities of everyone from Alaskans to Argentinians you'd presumably use something like "peoples of the Americas".
- crasshopper 16y ago"Americans" is more idiomatic. But - I bet NYU has_many Chilean, Canadian, Costa Rican grad students who would be annoyed at the implicit exclusion.
- davidw 16y agoBut the thing is titled "Getting to Know Americans", so why bother with an ugly sounding turn of words when you've already crossed that bridge? I didn't think that "US Americans" was even correct when I posted - it doesn't sound at all right to my ears. > Chilean, Canadian, Costa Rican grad students who would be annoyed at the implicit exclusion. Only the ones with a chip on their shoulder.
- TillE 16y agoIt's hard to tell what perspective this article is written from. There are many subjective qualifiers. For example: > Americans place considerable value on punctuality. From a German perspective, this is wildly untrue.
- JoeAltmaier 16y agoPlace value != arrive on time I know I'm doing something wrong when I'm late. Yet I'm sometimes late anyway.
- francoisdevlin 16y agoI think Germans are the ONLY exception to the rule. Of course, someone will provide a counter example, I'm sure :)
- MasterScrat 16y agoSwiss people.
- iopuy 16y agoJapanese.... In Japan being late is seen as seriously wrong.
- ido 16y agoAustria, Switzerland, all or most of Scandinavia...Probably most or all central/north/north western European societies. IIRC Australia is also the same.
- limist 16y agoA shorter version would be: Americans are generally individualist Protestant technologist capitalists. Like any other culture these defining traits bring inherent strengths, and unavoidable weaknesses. On a different note, Does anyone know the author of this essay? I've seen it around at least as far back as the early 1990's, and it's good to see it still in use.
- StudyAnimal 16y agoJust curious about what weaknesses you have in mind?
- presidentender 16y agoMany regard the unequal distribution of wealth inherent in that system as a weakness.
- limist 16y agoTake any one of those four traits and consider its opposite, e.g. individualism vs. group/tribal orientation. Individualism confers strengths most Westerners know and prize: freedom of expression, of employment, some degree of class/social/geographical mobility, personal merit and meritocratic ideals, etc. Individualism also brings severe and frequently self-destructive liabilities/weaknesses: alienation, lack of trust, lack of social bonds and support networks - as evidenced by the high rates of broken families, mental illness (depression, anxiety), and substance abuse. Of course, a combination of traits brings strengths that are more than the sum of their parts, and concomitant weaknesses. For example, the US is a great market for consumer goods (and thus entrepreneurs), as individuals seek their own immediate gratification and the promise of salvation/transformation through buying something new - all while supposedly contributing to the greater economic welfare (there being few if any other widespread, concrete, social goals). But it is far from a given that this way of life is at all viable, even in the course of one human lifetime, never mind a few centuries. As some scholars put it, every society confronts (and creates) large collective problems; the US has consistently chosen individualist capitalist technologist solutions, and it remains to be seen whether that approach has a long-term future.
- danieldk 16y agoI have been in the US about ten times and I think one of the initial barriers is our that our perception of the US is formed through Hollywood. Some things that did not match my expectations/assumptions: - The average American is much poorer than I expected. Wealth is less evenly divided, than say West-Europe. - Americans are extremely nice and warm. Some Europeans say it is superficial, but I really liked when eating at some place that a stranger would pass by and have a chat. - Apart from the West coast and North-East, Americans are pretty conservative. - Americans have a positive attitude towards life. - Americans are prepared to take risks, where Europeans are for more risk-averse. This (IMO) has a bad effect on the social system, but a positive effect on entrepreneurism.
- protomyth 16y agoDon't let appearances dictate your perception of wealth (well, in the midwest at least). A lot of farmers, business people in the midwest don't look the part, but have the bucks.
- rgraham 16y agoAnd as you might learn in 'The Millionaire Next Door' many doctors and lawyers have nothing but debt and the appearance of wealth. Or in Texan: "Big hat, no cattle."
- js4all 16y agoI have been in the U.S. as often as you (like 20 times) and had the same experiences. I go with all your 5 points. I especially like their openness and friendliness. The very positive experiences changed the way I behave when meeting strangers outside of the U.S. Things changed a bit after 9/11 though, but I can understand that.
- kloncks 16y agoIs there a typo here? Americans usually think of nature as something that can be altered, conquered, and controlled for people's comfort and use and in order to minimize the effects of fierce weather conditions. In contrast, many cultures accept nature as something they can change or control.
- bricestacey 16y agoI don't think it's necessarily wrong, but the first sentence splits a list of 3 use cases into 2 + 1... It should say, "comfort, use, and to minimize..."
- dionidium 16y agoClearly.
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- jdminhbg 16y agoEnding in s' is only for plurals formed by adding -s or -es. Men's room, people's comfort, etc.
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- StudyAnimal 16y agoYou mean that last "can" should be "can't" right? Yep pretty sure that is a typo.
- holdenc 16y agoHow about American irony and sarcasm? Here in Asia sarcasm is almost non-existent. Also, Americans value humor as a way of showing affection for someone. Whereas in Asia displays of servitude are a sign of affection. For example, if I engage in a humorous conversation with you, that means I like you. Even if I don't pour your tea for you!
- arethuza 16y agoActually, by British standards America appears an irony and sarcasm free zone. Not that this is necessarily a bad thing, but it is very noticeable.
- danieldk 16y agoIndeed, but Britain is probably the other extreme. I believe there is only one country that could've produced magnificent material such as Monty Python or Fawlty Towers ;).
- bioh42_2 16y agoYou know, unlike English some languages have a sarcastic tense.
- nebaneba 16y agoFascinating. Sarcasm is inherent in the grammar? Can you give some examples? update: searched a bit, cannot find any supporting evidence for bioh42_2's statement.
- jarin 16y agoHe used it in his post, you must have missed it.
- bioh42_2 16y agoInferential or renarrative mood: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferential_mood http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferential_mood Not always intended as sarcastic, but: The main body of the news report tends to use the renarrative correctly - but sometimes, again, it is intentionally avoided. (...) This is because, due to its ambiguity, the renarrative in such cases could be perceived as a passing of judgement or expression of doubt by the reporter...
- crasshopper 16y agoOther cultures are often evaluated as better or worse than this one rather than simply being seen as different. True. Americans tend to think that theirs is the best way to do things Not true. Just think about American adoption of yoga and buddhism. Certain aspects of Asian cultures, once discovered, were adopted and adapted by Yanks who thought their culture could use improving.
- JoeAltmaier 16y ago...my Austrian friend is amazed at the variety of ethnic food available in America. He doesn't see that in his travels, and certainly not at home.
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- jerf 16y agoThis seems a bit more accurate for New Yorkers than as a primer for Americans in general. "Observe their focus on themselves, rather on than their families" was particularly a "bwuh?" for me. In a university area (my local one is definitely like that), sure, but not in general.
- Hemospectrum 16y agoBy Asian standards, particularly Chinese, Americans are outrageously selfish. But it's true that Europeans (and perhaps most cultures) would find nothing unusual in Americans' value of self vs. family.
- grammaton 16y agoYhea, I kind of balked at that as well. I think it would be more accurate to say that Americans just don't use their families as a topic of discussion - to us, family is very important, but it's a private affair. Family is something we only discuss with family, or very close friends.
- paulnelligan 16y ago... And If you see Americans in the wild, make sure to stop what you're doing immediately, turn, and walk calmly, don't run, it will only excite them. If you have some food or drink, drop it, it may distract them, and in turn give you a few extra valuable seconds to escape ...
- jarin 16y agoOne thing I've heard from several Europeans I've met (who are currently living in the US, either for work or school) is that Americans have a reputation for being very friendly but making a lot of empty social promises. One European I met at my local watering hole was a programmer and a very cool guy, so we made plans to get together for beers and nerd talk. He mentioned the whole thing about social promises and said that he's had tons of cases where an American would express an intention to hang out at some later date and then flake out. I insisted that I totally intended to call him up the following weekend and set something up, but of course I totally forgot, and by the time I remembered it had been an awkward amount of time, so I never did call.
- ola 16y agoI'm European and I do this all the time too, I think it has more to do with the individual than with cultural norms.
- notJim 16y agoMy Singaporean roommate complains about this very thing. He thinks it's a politeness thing, as in, Americans will say "Let's do this again sometime," to sound polite, even when they have no intention of doing so.
- jarin 16y agoI know that I totally intend on following up, but starting up new friendships often seems like a lot of work. Most of my friendships come from work, friends of friends, or other regulars at the bar my friends and I all go to. It seems like less of a risk after you randomly socialize with them a few times.
- jarin 16y agoJust wanted to clear up that by "them", I don't mean foreigners, I mean potential new friends.
- protomyth 16y agoOh, and one more item for those college students who become grad students and decide they need to do field study, if you come out to a reservation in the northern plains and decide to hold a noon meeting, then YOU are on the hook for catering lunch. If you don't, prepare for a seriously insulted crowd. This includes dinner time meetings also. Brown bagging is not acceptable.
- krakensden 16y ago> Fields and professions that were unwelcoming to women in the past have seen remarkable growth of women in their ranks, including areas such as medicine, police, law, and engineering. Unless you talk to an engineer.
- invalidOrTaken 16y ago(I'm American and) I'm most curious about the supposed "superficiality" of Americans, particularly w/respect to friendships. Can anyone enlighten me on the reason for this? Are people of other countries accustomed to dealing with people who are less mobile and more likely to stick around for a while, and therefore more willing to invest time in a relationship? Is it an overemphasis on an appearance of independence?
- crasshopper 16y agoIn my experience, Germans are more likely to retain friends from secondary school, more likely to date someone for longer, and more likely to keep a social appointment. I would describe Germans as "slower to warm" to someone, but they "stay warm" for longer.
- Gunkertyjeb 16y agoFor what it's worth, this is a very "New York" way to view American culture. Each corner of the country is vastly different than the others.
- known 16y agoThe Xenophobe's Guide to the Americans http://www.ovalbooks.com/xeno/Americans.html http://www.ovalbooks.com/xeno/Americans.html
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- ssn 16y agoThe page seems to have been removed from nyu.edu. Strange.