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Governments have a hard time making people wear a mask that can save their lives and the one of their families. I can't imagine forcing them to stop eating meat

Governments have a hard time making people wear a mask that can save their lives and the one of their families. I can't imagine forcing them to stop eating meat being a solution. And if you stop eating meat yourself there is absolutely no guarantee that it has any impact at all. If enough people do it they may marginally decrease the demand for meat and lower its price but for this price some people will start eating more meat and the net result is null.

seanwilson 6y ago
> And if you stop eating meat yourself there is absolutely no guarantee that it has any impact at all. If enough people do it they may marginally decrease the demand for meat and lower its price but for this price some people will start eating more meat and the net result is null. Can you back this up? It defies logic to me that giving up meat, increasing the market for non-meat products and setting an example to others around to follow doesn't reduce animal farming. Not the best source but: https://uk.veganuary.com/blog/one-person-going-vegan-wont-make-difference https://uk.veganuary.com/blog/one-person-going-vegan-wont-ma... > We can see tangible changes in the farming industry specifically because people are going vegan. In the UK in 2016, sales of fresh meat fell by £328 million, fresh milk by £54 million and cheese by £73 million just in one year! Since then red meat sales have continued to fall. And the UK with its more than half a million vegans is not alone. > In the US, sales of meat have been declining for a decade, plant-based milk sales are worth $4.2 billion, and thinktank RethinkX predicts that both the beef and dairy industries will be defunct by 2030. > In Canada, meat consumption has been described as being 'in a decades-long slump' with 38 per cent of Canadians now saying they have reduced their meat consumption. > In Australia, which is the third-fastest growing vegan market in the world behind China and the United Arab Emirates, sales of dairy are in decline as young people turn their backs on cheese and cows’ milk. Now, 2.5 million Australians are either fully or almost vegetarian. And in Germany, 10 per cent of people are already meatless.
- MperorM 6y ago
  Oh Common, the point is just that any individual reducing their meat intake, will reduce total meat consumption less than the amount that individual consumed. That's hard to argue against. One counter argument would be that his/her analysis doesn't take into account any other effects of reducing consumption, such as one's friends and family also reducing consumption as direct consequence.
- toto444 6y ago
  I don't have any data to back this up but it is possible in theory. If you want a pointer, you can start here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand The idea is that if someone able to afford a cow 1000$ does not buy it, then it will be sold to someone willing to to buy it 999$ and who could not afford it before. To have a real impact on the market and the incentives to raise cattle, you'd need a real lot of people to become vegan. The link you shared is very weak on evidence (there are none) and a decrease in sales can be caused by a lot of factors.
- OJFord 6y ago
  I don't disagree that consumption of meat is reducing, and increasing in other areas, but: > thinktank RethinkX predicts that both the beef and dairy industries will be defunct by 2030 is hilariously absurd! No way.
- 52-6F-62 6y ago
  Re: Canada The prime beef ranching lands in Canada have not been forests at least within the last several hundred years, likely longer. Mid- and southern Alberta is largely grass plains
joncrane 6y ago
Can't they simply tax the hell out of meat by how much it damages the environment? E.g. beef is taxed very, very high, chicken lower, etc?
- frockington1 6y ago
  It didn't seem to have the desired effects when they taxed the hell out of smoking. While it did discourage smoking, now its yet another tax on the lower class
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  They "can" do whatever they want but if they do too many things that are universally unpopular the politicians will find themselves out of a job, possibly also with a hole in their head depending on how the specific government handles transfer of power.
adrianN 6y ago
They don't have to stop eating meat. It's already good if they eat less. Americans eat nearly 100kg of meat per year per person. That's 30% more than the average EU citizen and twice what the average Chinese or Japanese eats. There are various ways of making meat more expensive that are relatively easy to sell to the voters. For example requiring higher standards for animal welfare.
mrfusion 6y ago
> Governments have a hard time making people wear a mask that can save their lives and the one of their families. That seems like quite an exaggeration for a virus with a survival rate of 99.95% for those under 70 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.13.20101253v2 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.13.20101253v...
- maxerickson 6y ago
  What ratio of death does justify simple public action? (You've dismissed doing something easy to reduce the number of people impacted by a disease that you believe kills 1 in 2000 infected by it)
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

seanwilson 6y ago

> And if you stop eating meat yourself there is absolutely no guarantee that it has any impact at all. If enough people do it they may marginally decrease the demand for meat and lower its price but for this price some people will start eating more meat and the net result is null. Can you back this up? It defies logic to me that giving up meat, increasing the market for non-meat products and setting an example to others around to follow doesn't reduce animal farming. Not the best source but: https://uk.veganuary.com/blog/one-person-going-vegan-wont-make-difference https://uk.veganuary.com/blog/one-person-going-vegan-wont-ma... > We can see tangible changes in the farming industry specifically because people are going vegan. In the UK in 2016, sales of fresh meat fell by £328 million, fresh milk by £54 million and cheese by £73 million just in one year! Since then red meat sales have continued to fall. And the UK with its more than half a million vegans is not alone. > In the US, sales of meat have been declining for a decade, plant-based milk sales are worth $4.2 billion, and thinktank RethinkX predicts that both the beef and dairy industries will be defunct by 2030. > In Canada, meat consumption has been described as being 'in a decades-long slump' with 38 per cent of Canadians now saying they have reduced their meat consumption. > In Australia, which is the third-fastest growing vegan market in the world behind China and the United Arab Emirates, sales of dairy are in decline as young people turn their backs on cheese and cows’ milk. Now, 2.5 million Australians are either fully or almost vegetarian. And in Germany, 10 per cent of people are already meatless.

MperorM 6y ago
Oh Common, the point is just that any individual reducing their meat intake, will reduce total meat consumption less than the amount that individual consumed. That's hard to argue against. One counter argument would be that his/her analysis doesn't take into account any other effects of reducing consumption, such as one's friends and family also reducing consumption as direct consequence.
toto444 6y ago
I don't have any data to back this up but it is possible in theory. If you want a pointer, you can start here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand The idea is that if someone able to afford a cow 1000$ does not buy it, then it will be sold to someone willing to to buy it 999$ and who could not afford it before. To have a real impact on the market and the incentives to raise cattle, you'd need a real lot of people to become vegan. The link you shared is very weak on evidence (there are none) and a decrease in sales can be caused by a lot of factors.
OJFord 6y ago
I don't disagree that consumption of meat is reducing, and increasing in other areas, but: > thinktank RethinkX predicts that both the beef and dairy industries will be defunct by 2030 is hilariously absurd! No way.
52-6F-62 6y ago
Re: Canada The prime beef ranching lands in Canada have not been forests at least within the last several hundred years, likely longer. Mid- and southern Alberta is largely grass plains

joncrane 6y ago

Can't they simply tax the hell out of meat by how much it damages the environment? E.g. beef is taxed very, very high, chicken lower, etc?

frockington1 6y ago
It didn't seem to have the desired effects when they taxed the hell out of smoking. While it did discourage smoking, now its yet another tax on the lower class
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
They "can" do whatever they want but if they do too many things that are universally unpopular the politicians will find themselves out of a job, possibly also with a hole in their head depending on how the specific government handles transfer of power.

adrianN 6y ago

They don't have to stop eating meat. It's already good if they eat less. Americans eat nearly 100kg of meat per year per person. That's 30% more than the average EU citizen and twice what the average Chinese or Japanese eats. There are various ways of making meat more expensive that are relatively easy to sell to the voters. For example requiring higher standards for animal welfare.

mrfusion 6y ago

> Governments have a hard time making people wear a mask that can save their lives and the one of their families. That seems like quite an exaggeration for a virus with a survival rate of 99.95% for those under 70 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.13.20101253v2 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.13.20101253v...

maxerickson 6y ago
What ratio of death does justify simple public action? (You've dismissed doing something easy to reduce the number of people impacted by a disease that you believe kills 1 in 2000 infected by it)
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]