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XJ is interpreted as a counter-terrorism / COIN operation in China - aka War on Terror. Go look up Uyghur terrorism attacks in China on Global Terrorism DB, the

XJ is interpreted as a counter-terrorism / COIN operation in China - aka War on Terror. Go look up Uyghur terrorism attacks in China on Global Terrorism DB, there's 100+ that stopped abruptly after XJ security architecture / Strike Hard campaign. Spreading to interior provinces including TianAnMen. Western MSM will report 2009 minority riots and probably stop there, but it was ongoing for until 2017s. Generally, you won't find much mainstream sympathy because Uyghurs were already getting massive affirmative action privileges, and the ones outside of XJ has reputation (right or wrongly) of being Chinese gypsies. You'll find more sympathy from Han in XJ, because they have to deal with apartheid, but even this sympathy is declining due to increased nationalism and domestic propaganda. Overall, average Chinese will find re-education strategy much more humane and western forever wars. And really like... 1-2 million is ~0.1% of the Chinese population. Statistically it's hard to convince them it's a big deal compared to US prison industrial complex. Sure it's whataboutism, but it's also math. The average Chinese is focused on covid recovery, and before that pork prices. XJ/Tibet is just not something on the radar, and there's enough domestic propaganda to counter western propaganda. The bigger unsaid issue is US/Pompeo/China hawks has zero moral credibility in China. For Chinese, the XJ model - integrating Uighur rapidly is seen both as a "fairer" minority policy and more effective COIN model. As long as the west jails minorities disproportionately, and dropping bombs on weddings, there's no argument or propaganda to convince Chinese they're not making the better moral choice. E: The even bigger unsaid issue, which every expert musing about the global implication of surveillance authoritarianism but won't publicly entertain is: what if XJ works? There's a reason China has 2X support of the XJ program than US can gather against, from majority Islamic countries no less. It's not just lol-debt trap. There are many parties interested in XJ model working. 80% of the world are flawed democracies or worse, and the overall trajectory is illiberal decline and increased geopolitical instability. There are more rulers who is invested in XJ working than not. The even larger issue than that? West doesn't have a alternative model, we've been flirting with incremental improvements over decade scales whenever our own "contradictions" force our hands, i.e. BLM. That's just not good enough.

MagnumOpus 6y ago
> 1-2 million is ~0.1% of the Chinese population Amazing hot take. Ethnically cleansing millions of people is A-OK as long as your country's population is large enough. That is prime wumaodang logic. > XJ model - integrating Uighur rapidly The Chinese model of "ethnocide" -- eradicating the religion, culture and written language of successive minority groups from Manchu to Tibetan, Uighur, Hlai, Zhuang, Oirat Mongols and hundreds of other groups -- is successful in creating a monolithic mass of resource and people subservient to the CCP, to better enrich the CCP Beijing princelings. So understandably it is heavily pushed by media domestically and by the wumao abroad. Nonetheless ethnocide is frowned upon as a crime against humanity these days in the rest of the world (and before you go whatabout on me, yes lots of other countries did it hundreds of years ago). > [Muslim country support for Uighur genocide is] not just lol-debt trap It's also lol-sanctions, lol-trade-war and lol-UN-veto-power, not to speak of the CCP siccing their asymmetric warfare units on you. Muslim countries don't mind pissing off EU or US because those don't bother to get into a pissing match these days (unlike in the cold war era). Mainland Chinese politicians however, are incredibly insecure, thin skinned and obsessed with "face", so any perceived insult and they fund some rival warlord or prince to coup you off the throne...
- dirtyid 6y ago
  Good luck getting any population to care about repressing 0.1% for national security. Math education is good in China, people understand per-capita and more importantly understand the terrorism stopped. Nothing else matters. It doesn't hurt their geopolitical adversary jails more in relative if not absolute terms. This "world" of yours is 23 who signed a letter against XJ versus 54 who supports XJ. Reeducation narrative has firm lead. There's about 100 countries who just don't care. And ultimately only 1 whose doing anything about it, but for geopolitics, and not because it cares. >ME fear CCP What is this, opposite day? Muslim countries fear China's zero military experience and zero force projection ability versus actual bombs being dropped in ME right now by west? Authoritarian countries likes what China wants to sell. A global order where authoritarianism is seen as a valid alternative governance model, a raising power who actually doesn't sanction or regime change over human rights. About the only Chinese "win-win" benefit most parties unironically believe in. Oh, also China used the Veto least. >Chinese politicians however, are incredibly insecure At this point I don't know if you're writing to debate or writing to cope. Understanding CCP Resilience: Surveying Chinese Public Opinion Through Time. July 2020 >We find that first, since the start of the survey in 2003, Chinese citizen satisfaction with government has increased virtually across the board. From the impact of broad national policies to the conduct of local town officials, Chinese citizens rate the government as more capable and effective than ever before. Interestingly, more marginalized groups in poorer, inland regions are actually comparatively more likely to report increases in satisfaction. https://ash.harvard.edu/files/ash/files/final_policy_brief_7.6.2020.pdf https://ash.harvard.edu/files/ash/files/final_policy_brief_7... Anyway, we're done.
throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
> what if XJ works? It may well work. And mass sterilisation of women also works (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/china-conducting-mass-sterilization-muslim-minorities-amount-genocide/story?id=71519132 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/china-conducting-mass-steril...) in that being sterilised stops them having kids, which is the point. Most effective too! What you're totally, frighteningly blind to is whether it's morally OK.
- dirtyid 6y ago
  Sinicizating XJ will be mostly cultural genocide, which of course is immoral. Though many Uighurs will still remain Islamic but with Chinese characteristics - promoting religion is key Chinese foreign policy to connect with OBOR cultures. No, I'm not blind to it, nor to dumb western media spins, i.e. mass sterilization = 2 child policy. You can ask 1.3 billion Han how immoral one child policy and family planning was for the last 40 years. Hint: very. The original question is how the situation is communicated and discussed in China. And I answered. You know how the west can talk about lots of issues like actual wars where we're aggressors, systemic racism that kept minority down or in jails etc with nuance? That happens in China on various topics too. At the end of the day, just like the west, many don't give a shit. Unlike the west, they can't really protest if they do. But even if they could, most probably wouldn't, because people irrationally and massively overreact to terrorism.
  - throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
    Hint: You didn't read the link. It has nothing to do with the N child policy. Here: "The Chinese government has deployed a mass sterilization campaign against Muslim ethnic minorities in the country's western provinces, according to a new report, which argues the tactics could amount to genocide." "Those camps are used as a form of threat and punishment, with officials detaining women and families who fail to comply with pregnancy checks or forced intrauterine contraceptive devices -- more commonly known as IUDs -- sterilizations, and even abortions." > The original question is how the situation is communicated and discussed in China I was responding to your delightful comment... > what if XJ works? And I pointed out your hideously lack of morality which is the point. So let's ask, how would you like it if your wife was sterilised against her will or had a forced abortion? ANSWER THAT QUESTION PLEASE. Because that is what morality is about. If you don't like it, don't do it to others.

MagnumOpus 6y ago

> 1-2 million is ~0.1% of the Chinese population Amazing hot take. Ethnically cleansing millions of people is A-OK as long as your country's population is large enough. That is prime wumaodang logic. > XJ model - integrating Uighur rapidly The Chinese model of "ethnocide" -- eradicating the religion, culture and written language of successive minority groups from Manchu to Tibetan, Uighur, Hlai, Zhuang, Oirat Mongols and hundreds of other groups -- is successful in creating a monolithic mass of resource and people subservient to the CCP, to better enrich the CCP Beijing princelings. So understandably it is heavily pushed by media domestically and by the wumao abroad. Nonetheless ethnocide is frowned upon as a crime against humanity these days in the rest of the world (and before you go whatabout on me, yes lots of other countries did it hundreds of years ago). > [Muslim country support for Uighur genocide is] not just lol-debt trap It's also lol-sanctions, lol-trade-war and lol-UN-veto-power, not to speak of the CCP siccing their asymmetric warfare units on you. Muslim countries don't mind pissing off EU or US because those don't bother to get into a pissing match these days (unlike in the cold war era). Mainland Chinese politicians however, are incredibly insecure, thin skinned and obsessed with "face", so any perceived insult and they fund some rival warlord or prince to coup you off the throne...

dirtyid 6y ago
Good luck getting any population to care about repressing 0.1% for national security. Math education is good in China, people understand per-capita and more importantly understand the terrorism stopped. Nothing else matters. It doesn't hurt their geopolitical adversary jails more in relative if not absolute terms. This "world" of yours is 23 who signed a letter against XJ versus 54 who supports XJ. Reeducation narrative has firm lead. There's about 100 countries who just don't care. And ultimately only 1 whose doing anything about it, but for geopolitics, and not because it cares. >ME fear CCP What is this, opposite day? Muslim countries fear China's zero military experience and zero force projection ability versus actual bombs being dropped in ME right now by west? Authoritarian countries likes what China wants to sell. A global order where authoritarianism is seen as a valid alternative governance model, a raising power who actually doesn't sanction or regime change over human rights. About the only Chinese "win-win" benefit most parties unironically believe in. Oh, also China used the Veto least. >Chinese politicians however, are incredibly insecure At this point I don't know if you're writing to debate or writing to cope. Understanding CCP Resilience: Surveying Chinese Public Opinion Through Time. July 2020 >We find that first, since the start of the survey in 2003, Chinese citizen satisfaction with government has increased virtually across the board. From the impact of broad national policies to the conduct of local town officials, Chinese citizens rate the government as more capable and effective than ever before. Interestingly, more marginalized groups in poorer, inland regions are actually comparatively more likely to report increases in satisfaction. https://ash.harvard.edu/files/ash/files/final_policy_brief_7.6.2020.pdf https://ash.harvard.edu/files/ash/files/final_policy_brief_7... Anyway, we're done.

throwaway_pdp09 6y ago

> what if XJ works? It may well work. And mass sterilisation of women also works (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/china-conducting-mass-sterilization-muslim-minorities-amount-genocide/story?id=71519132 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/china-conducting-mass-steril...) in that being sterilised stops them having kids, which is the point. Most effective too! What you're totally, frighteningly blind to is whether it's morally OK.

dirtyid 6y ago
Sinicizating XJ will be mostly cultural genocide, which of course is immoral. Though many Uighurs will still remain Islamic but with Chinese characteristics - promoting religion is key Chinese foreign policy to connect with OBOR cultures. No, I'm not blind to it, nor to dumb western media spins, i.e. mass sterilization = 2 child policy. You can ask 1.3 billion Han how immoral one child policy and family planning was for the last 40 years. Hint: very. The original question is how the situation is communicated and discussed in China. And I answered. You know how the west can talk about lots of issues like actual wars where we're aggressors, systemic racism that kept minority down or in jails etc with nuance? That happens in China on various topics too. At the end of the day, just like the west, many don't give a shit. Unlike the west, they can't really protest if they do. But even if they could, most probably wouldn't, because people irrationally and massively overreact to terrorism.
- throwaway_pdp09 6y ago
  Hint: You didn't read the link. It has nothing to do with the N child policy. Here: "The Chinese government has deployed a mass sterilization campaign against Muslim ethnic minorities in the country's western provinces, according to a new report, which argues the tactics could amount to genocide." "Those camps are used as a form of threat and punishment, with officials detaining women and families who fail to comply with pregnancy checks or forced intrauterine contraceptive devices -- more commonly known as IUDs -- sterilizations, and even abortions." > The original question is how the situation is communicated and discussed in China I was responding to your delightful comment... > what if XJ works? And I pointed out your hideously lack of morality which is the point. So let's ask, how would you like it if your wife was sterilised against her will or had a forced abortion? ANSWER THAT QUESTION PLEASE. Because that is what morality is about. If you don't like it, don't do it to others.