4 ms·

I've been making cheese at home for a few years now, and was lucky enough to find a local source of raw milk a few months ago, at the beginning of the pandemic.

by agf 6y ago

I've been making cheese at home for a few years now, and was lucky enough to find a local source of raw milk a few months ago, at the beginning of the pandemic. Since then, I've made cheese exclusively with raw milk. While I'd read about the differences previously, they're understated by most sources -- I can only assume many people are passing on accounts they've heard rather than speaking from experience. The texture of the finished cheese and how the milk acts while being processed into cheese is incredibly different from even fresh low-temperature pasteurized milk with added calcium. Even a simple cheese like mozzarella is very noticeably different -- and in my opinion, better -- when made from raw milk. So while I'm willing to believe commercially produced cheeses are closer to their raw-milk counterparts than my homemade cheeses are, I still feel we've lost a lot when it comes to the experience of eating cheese just by using pasteurized milk.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 6y ago
> I still feel we've lost a lot when it comes to the experience of eating cheese just by using pasteurized milk. A big thing we miss out on by using pasteurized milk is Listeria. According to the CDC[0], "Soft cheeses made with unpasteurized milk (also called raw milk) are estimated to be 50 to 160 times more likely to cause Listeria infection than when they are made with pasteurized milk." 0. https://www.cdc.gov/listeria/prevention.html https://www.cdc.gov/listeria/prevention.html
- himinlomax 6y ago
  The way it's handled in France (and I guess the rest of Europe) is that such products are tested very frequently and recalls issued quickly and liberally. As a result, consumer poisoning are very rare. Overall this may be a better strategy as the presence of harmless microorganisms slow the development of harmful ones.
- thatfrenchguy 6y ago
  And yet countries like France have no problem with people eating unpasteurized cheeses all the time every day. And the cheese there is on a different league than in the US diversity and quality wise ;-).
  - empthought 6y ago
    Actually they do, their rate of listeriosis is higher, increasing, and not linked to specific contamination in the supply chain leading to outbreaks: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2600261/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2600261/ Maybe not a big problem compared to say, coronavirus, but I’ll take my milk pasteurized, thanks.
- agf 6y ago
  Absolutely. I'm not arguing for widespread use of raw milk, just mentioning that I actually think that's a bigger source of lost variety in cheese for the vast majority of us (at least in the UK and US) than a few low-volume types ceasing production. While I'm sure my production facility (a.k.a kitchen) isn't as clean as most commercial facilities, I don't have to transport it, worry about lack of temperature control, or about the lag between when it's ready and when it gets consumed, so there is much less chance I grow a bunch of listeria. I also don't feed it to old people, children, or the immunocompromised.

by agf 6y ago

RcouF1uZ4gsC 6y ago

> I still feel we've lost a lot when it comes to the experience of eating cheese just by using pasteurized milk. A big thing we miss out on by using pasteurized milk is Listeria. According to the CDC[0], "Soft cheeses made with unpasteurized milk (also called raw milk) are estimated to be 50 to 160 times more likely to cause Listeria infection than when they are made with pasteurized milk." 0. https://www.cdc.gov/listeria/prevention.html https://www.cdc.gov/listeria/prevention.html

himinlomax 6y ago
The way it's handled in France (and I guess the rest of Europe) is that such products are tested very frequently and recalls issued quickly and liberally. As a result, consumer poisoning are very rare. Overall this may be a better strategy as the presence of harmless microorganisms slow the development of harmful ones.
thatfrenchguy 6y ago
And yet countries like France have no problem with people eating unpasteurized cheeses all the time every day. And the cheese there is on a different league than in the US diversity and quality wise ;-).
- empthought 6y ago
  Actually they do, their rate of listeriosis is higher, increasing, and not linked to specific contamination in the supply chain leading to outbreaks: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2600261/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2600261/ Maybe not a big problem compared to say, coronavirus, but I’ll take my milk pasteurized, thanks.
agf 6y ago
Absolutely. I'm not arguing for widespread use of raw milk, just mentioning that I actually think that's a bigger source of lost variety in cheese for the vast majority of us (at least in the UK and US) than a few low-volume types ceasing production. While I'm sure my production facility (a.k.a kitchen) isn't as clean as most commercial facilities, I don't have to transport it, worry about lack of temperature control, or about the lag between when it's ready and when it gets consumed, so there is much less chance I grow a bunch of listeria. I also don't feed it to old people, children, or the immunocompromised.