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Phil Schiller, and the whole marketing group, are an underestimated part of Apple's success over the past 20 years. It's why there's no company like Apple in th

Phil Schiller, and the whole marketing group, are an underestimated part of Apple's success over the past 20 years. It's why there's no company like Apple in the tech industry.

ponker 6y ago
Nobody underestimates Apple's marketing. In fact I think it's the other way around, a lot of people pooh-pooh desire for their products as just marketing-susceptible idiots (e.g. "I could get the same features in an Android for $200 less and it comes with a MicroSD slot and headphone jack... but fanboys need their iPhone") looking for a cool brand when the reality is that they also make some of the best products.
- snazz 6y ago
  Exactly. It can be difficult to explain to someone who used Android their whole life that iMessage (for example) is such a huge differentiating feature (at least in the US) when they see iPhone users as sheeple who buy purely based on marketing and product placement. Apple does a really good job of taking care of the little details on many of their devices, even if Macs are very expensive for what you get and the ecosystem has such a significant lock-in effect. Also, despite the fact that it’s shallow, status signaling is sometimes useful. Just like with the well-dressed Manhattan lawyer example in the recent thread about physical attractiveness in legal justice, having the right product in the right crowd subconsciously affects how others see you.
  - sjg007 6y ago
    I've had androids and find that iphones have better battery life so that was my main reason for sticking with the iphone. Maybe that's different now.. not sure. I don't like paying $1k for a phone for sure.
  - kroltan 6y ago
    Yes, but you have to consider also that people have different priorities. For example, you say that "iMessage is a huge differentiating feature", but if most of that person's social circle uses other services, there is no advantage there. And UI polish might rank lower compared to the lock-in. I'm not saying you're wrong to value those things, but a good amount of people don't. So no amount of explaining why iMessage is great will convince them, even if they understand and agree iMessage is great, since the "maximum appreciation" for any feature is capped by the perceived value of its premise.
    - snazz 6y ago
      I think that’s very fair. If you’re able to have that kind of conversation with someone, hopefully it’s easy for them to see that Apple’s stellar marketing wasn’t the reason you bought an iPhone; there were logical reasons behind it as well.
      - ponker 6y ago
        Or you could just say, life is too short to try to defend yourself against accusations of fanboyism, and just get up and walk away.
- qppo 6y ago
  If there's something people underestimate about Apple's marketing it's the general awareness we have for their products, their capabilities, and market fit. Like here's an exercise, someone comes to you for a computer recommendation. They want a work laptop, home laptop/tablet (something with a keyboard), and an all-in-one. Give a recommendation from Apple, Dell, and HP. Personally, I don't need to go to google to look up the Apple products I'd recommend, and I'm not even a fanboy. I don't think I can name a product from HP off the top of my head, and I know I'd need Dell's search tools to harrow in on something.
  - ponker 6y ago
    It's a virtuous cycle. They ship very few products because each product is very successful. Each product is very successful because it's good and the awareness and consumer desire is high. And the small number of products both helps in manufacturing quality and in profit margins.
    - sukilot 6y ago
      It's also because their competitors are terrible at marketing everything except spamming numbers that sound big. I heard the Dell 8930 was a good desktop. Or maybe the 8490? And the HP Envy 14w71x and the Lenova Yoga 930? Maybe?
      - ponker 6y ago
        Well it's made easier by the fact that they only have one of each category. Want a desktop all-in-one? You'll want the iMac. This one is "the best iMac ever." They only compare them against themselves, so you can know that the 2015 is better than the 2014 and worse than the 2016. What surprises me is that Apple continues to ship stuff like the base model 21.5 iMac that is just objectively a terrible computer (until yesterday, had a spinning boot drive!) when the whole idea is that you just buy the Apple thing and don't need to know that you should upgrade to an SSD.
        solidasparagus 6y ago
- jackson1442 6y ago
  Exactly. I hate to use the phrase "it just works," but the number of things I have to "break" in windows to make it usable is too damn high. For example, I have a 2008 MacBook Pro that's whipped out on rare occasion to simply act as another computer when I need to test something. It works fine. It's on macOS Yosemite, I think, but it's certainly not up to date since most of its time is spent powered off in a closet. Whenever I boot it, I usually get a banner saying it got a security update or something while I'm using it. I also have a tower PC that is used for tower PC things, also rarely. It has Windows 10 Enterprise Eval, and I decided to be a good consumer and give it a license because it's been unlicensed since 2017. It's also running far slower than it should be for the specs it has. Turns out, it hasn't updated since 2017, but that's fine, I'll just update it. Well, I can't license it without updating. The build's expired. I also can't seem to get it to discover that the Fall 2017 build of Win10 is not the current build. I think that's because it's unlicensed. I'm currently working on getting Windows reinstalled, I'm probably fucking it up some way, but I don't use this PC enough to warrant spending this much time on it. What I'm trying to say here is that there is a decent amount of fanboyism contributing to Apple's success. However, the little things they do to make their software work better makes it worth it in my opinion. I have never had an issue with a Mac being too "out of date" to do stuff on; that 2008 Macbook Pro still works (with the wonders of an SSD). That's what sold me. I was considering getting a windows laptop to replace my current macbook pro, but this experience, combined with many others, doesn't make it worth my time to save that money.
  - ponker 6y ago
    I don't think loyalty based on product quality is "fanboyism." I think that's called brand loyalty and it's hard-earned. I only ever buy Toyota/Lexus vehicles because Toyota vehicles have been exceptionally reliable for me. As soon as I observe that this isn't true, I'll stop buying them. I'm not a fanboy, I'm a fan.

Phil Schiller, and the whole marketing group, are an underestimated part of Apple's success over the past 20 years. It's why there's no company like Apple in the tech industry.

ponker 6y ago

Nobody underestimates Apple's marketing. In fact I think it's the other way around, a lot of people pooh-pooh desire for their products as just marketing-susceptible idiots (e.g. "I could get the same features in an Android for $200 less and it comes with a MicroSD slot and headphone jack... but fanboys need their iPhone") looking for a cool brand when the reality is that they also make some of the best products.

snazz 6y ago
Exactly. It can be difficult to explain to someone who used Android their whole life that iMessage (for example) is such a huge differentiating feature (at least in the US) when they see iPhone users as sheeple who buy purely based on marketing and product placement. Apple does a really good job of taking care of the little details on many of their devices, even if Macs are very expensive for what you get and the ecosystem has such a significant lock-in effect. Also, despite the fact that it’s shallow, status signaling is sometimes useful. Just like with the well-dressed Manhattan lawyer example in the recent thread about physical attractiveness in legal justice, having the right product in the right crowd subconsciously affects how others see you.
- sjg007 6y ago
  I've had androids and find that iphones have better battery life so that was my main reason for sticking with the iphone. Maybe that's different now.. not sure. I don't like paying $1k for a phone for sure.
- kroltan 6y ago
  Yes, but you have to consider also that people have different priorities. For example, you say that "iMessage is a huge differentiating feature", but if most of that person's social circle uses other services, there is no advantage there. And UI polish might rank lower compared to the lock-in. I'm not saying you're wrong to value those things, but a good amount of people don't. So no amount of explaining why iMessage is great will convince them, even if they understand and agree iMessage is great, since the "maximum appreciation" for any feature is capped by the perceived value of its premise.
  - snazz 6y ago
    I think that’s very fair. If you’re able to have that kind of conversation with someone, hopefully it’s easy for them to see that Apple’s stellar marketing wasn’t the reason you bought an iPhone; there were logical reasons behind it as well.
    - ponker 6y ago
      Or you could just say, life is too short to try to defend yourself against accusations of fanboyism, and just get up and walk away.
qppo 6y ago
If there's something people underestimate about Apple's marketing it's the general awareness we have for their products, their capabilities, and market fit. Like here's an exercise, someone comes to you for a computer recommendation. They want a work laptop, home laptop/tablet (something with a keyboard), and an all-in-one. Give a recommendation from Apple, Dell, and HP. Personally, I don't need to go to google to look up the Apple products I'd recommend, and I'm not even a fanboy. I don't think I can name a product from HP off the top of my head, and I know I'd need Dell's search tools to harrow in on something.
- ponker 6y ago
  It's a virtuous cycle. They ship very few products because each product is very successful. Each product is very successful because it's good and the awareness and consumer desire is high. And the small number of products both helps in manufacturing quality and in profit margins.
  - sukilot 6y ago
    It's also because their competitors are terrible at marketing everything except spamming numbers that sound big. I heard the Dell 8930 was a good desktop. Or maybe the 8490? And the HP Envy 14w71x and the Lenova Yoga 930? Maybe?
    - ponker 6y ago
      Well it's made easier by the fact that they only have one of each category. Want a desktop all-in-one? You'll want the iMac. This one is "the best iMac ever." They only compare them against themselves, so you can know that the 2015 is better than the 2014 and worse than the 2016. What surprises me is that Apple continues to ship stuff like the base model 21.5 iMac that is just objectively a terrible computer (until yesterday, had a spinning boot drive!) when the whole idea is that you just buy the Apple thing and don't need to know that you should upgrade to an SSD.
      - solidasparagus 6y ago
jackson1442 6y ago
Exactly. I hate to use the phrase "it just works," but the number of things I have to "break" in windows to make it usable is too damn high. For example, I have a 2008 MacBook Pro that's whipped out on rare occasion to simply act as another computer when I need to test something. It works fine. It's on macOS Yosemite, I think, but it's certainly not up to date since most of its time is spent powered off in a closet. Whenever I boot it, I usually get a banner saying it got a security update or something while I'm using it. I also have a tower PC that is used for tower PC things, also rarely. It has Windows 10 Enterprise Eval, and I decided to be a good consumer and give it a license because it's been unlicensed since 2017. It's also running far slower than it should be for the specs it has. Turns out, it hasn't updated since 2017, but that's fine, I'll just update it. Well, I can't license it without updating. The build's expired. I also can't seem to get it to discover that the Fall 2017 build of Win10 is not the current build. I think that's because it's unlicensed. I'm currently working on getting Windows reinstalled, I'm probably fucking it up some way, but I don't use this PC enough to warrant spending this much time on it. What I'm trying to say here is that there is a decent amount of fanboyism contributing to Apple's success. However, the little things they do to make their software work better makes it worth it in my opinion. I have never had an issue with a Mac being too "out of date" to do stuff on; that 2008 Macbook Pro still works (with the wonders of an SSD). That's what sold me. I was considering getting a windows laptop to replace my current macbook pro, but this experience, combined with many others, doesn't make it worth my time to save that money.
- ponker 6y ago
  I don't think loyalty based on product quality is "fanboyism." I think that's called brand loyalty and it's hard-earned. I only ever buy Toyota/Lexus vehicles because Toyota vehicles have been exceptionally reliable for me. As soon as I observe that this isn't true, I'll stop buying them. I'm not a fanboy, I'm a fan.