4 ms·

"However, a willing and interested student can learn so much more with newer, more powerful tools." This is complete bullshit. To stay within the grand-parent

"However, a willing and interested student can learn so much more with newer, more powerful tools." This is complete bullshit. To stay within the grand-parent post's framework (although Knuth is perhaps a reach), you would reach a fixed point where adding nifty tech isn't going to make your experience studying Knuth that much more productive. It would be nice to have a decent laptop capable of running a compiler and whatever IDE or not-so-integrated environment you prefer; a well configured device from the last 5 years would be fine. An iPad isn't going to solve any problems here. Lazy students are lazy because they don't want to think hard, solve problems and learn. This is largely a constant and is not going to be affected by being given a iPad. To quote Jack Vance (why not?): "Whatever you have heard about me, dismiss it. I do not regard my class as a confrontation between the clear light of my intellect and twenty-two examples of sloth and willful stupidity. The exact number may be only half that, if we are lucky, and of course varies from term to term."

guptaneil 16y ago
Based on your logic, calculators shouldn't have ever been introduced in the classroom either because an abacus filled our needs. Or perhaps 128k of memory really was enough, since what possible use could we have for more memory or advanced technology if the status quo fills our current needs? We are just beginning to untap the possibilities of mobile devices in the classroom, and to completely dismiss them as "nifty tech" is very short sighted. People tried to do the same ten years ago when laptops started appearing in classrooms. Had they succeeded, companies like Google would not even exist today. We are seeing many interesting uses of mobile devices in education now that the devices are finally appearing in classrooms. However, until they become more ubiquitous and accepted, it will be impossible to fully demonstrate how much they can impact education. Having spoken to professors who have personally experimented with iPads in classrooms, I can tell you it makes a day and night difference just in student engagement when they are given a textbook to study from versus being encouraged to explore a topic and discuss it using mobile devices like the iPad. I've observed biology classes where roughly half of the students used an iPad. These students consistently participated more than the other students. There are several reasons for this behavioral change, but I think the most important one is the design of the device and OS. It focuses on the single task at hand. When an app becomes the whole device and actually discourages multitasking, students pay attention more compared to their distracting laptop screens. Compared to laptop users, they also benefitted from a lack of a physical barrier from the laptop screen between the student and instructor. Those students that had no electronic device and just depended on the textbook generally participated the least and seemed least interested. It will be interesting to see how these devices continue to change how classrooms operate as more and more schools open up to the idea. Keep in mind that the target audience is not tech savvy nerds, but the typical student, who for the most part is still afraid of using traditional laptops. These students, however, live off of their cell phones, so why not take advantage of an environment they are already comfortable in to encourage learning instead of forcing them into a foreign environment?
- WalterBright 16y ago
  Back in the olden daze, I was taught in college with nothing more than a prof and a blackboard, and I took notes. It works fine. I learned a helluva lot in a very short time. The thing is, it takes work to learn something. You have to make an effort. Labor saving machinery doesn't help any more than using a motorcycle to train for a marathon. As they say in athletics, no pain = no gain.
  - guptaneil 16y ago
    It worked fine for you, me, and the majority of HN. However, something clearly isn't working in the education system for the majority of students today, hence all the talk of "educational reform." Nobody will disagree that it takes work to learn, and I am by no means proposing that technology is a magic bullet that will make learning easy all of a sudden. All I am suggesting is that technology can help make aspects of learning easier in order to allow students to focus on the more difficult aspects. Just like athletes wear specialized gear to reduce unnecessary pain, we can use technology to reduce unnecessary work in the education system and focus on the actual learning.
    - ctdonath 16y ago
      Yes, something is clearly not working in the education system: students are not learning "DO THE WORK". Sure nifty gadgets can help - but only if the student is going to do the work in the first place. I'm not talking about "difficult aspects", I'm talking about the very simplest of tasks, like starting an online at-your-convenience quiz, or handing in a homework assignment with no more content than "I'm confused". I'm talking about students who do so little that if you gave them 100% on everything they do submit they still won't break a 50%. No amount of specialized gear will help an athlete if he won't move when the game begins.
      - guptaneil 16y ago
        So you're proposing that for those students who have not yet been motivated to work hard as a result of a broken system, we should just keep trying to force them through that system with no change? There are many, many reasons why the education system is not working, and there are many proposed solutions. No one solution is going to fix things, but they can contribute steps towards the overall solution. By dismissing all technology as nifty gadgets and refusing to even consider changing a broken system for a new generation, you're giving up before even trying. One reason the educational system isn't working anymore is the behavioral changes in children that have been encouraged through cell phone and social networking usage. It's been shown that face-to-face discussion is intimidating and harmful to brainstorming or learning effectiveness [1]. This is why children and young adults prefer texting and communicating through Facebook over face-to-face socializing or even phone calls. Despite this fact, the size of classrooms continue to grow as we cram more and more students together to fight for the instructor's attention and to discuss topics in front of each other. Then we sit back and wonder, why students are intimidated and are unable to learn. We have a classroom full of unengaged students staring blankly at an instructor, we know that they're intimidated to engage and ask questions in front of such a large group, and we know that they already have mobile devices on them that they are comfortable communicating and engaging with in large groups. But instead of taking advantage of those devices, you (and everybody else) seem to want to ignore everything and just keep trying to force students through a system that's not working for them anymore. [1]: http://books.google.com/books?id=RNiFM9br5PwC&lpg=PP1&dq=medici%20effect&pg=PA108#v=onepage&q=osborns%20claim&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=RNiFM9br5PwC&lpg=PP1&#3...

guptaneil 16y ago

Based on your logic, calculators shouldn't have ever been introduced in the classroom either because an abacus filled our needs. Or perhaps 128k of memory really was enough, since what possible use could we have for more memory or advanced technology if the status quo fills our current needs? We are just beginning to untap the possibilities of mobile devices in the classroom, and to completely dismiss them as "nifty tech" is very short sighted. People tried to do the same ten years ago when laptops started appearing in classrooms. Had they succeeded, companies like Google would not even exist today. We are seeing many interesting uses of mobile devices in education now that the devices are finally appearing in classrooms. However, until they become more ubiquitous and accepted, it will be impossible to fully demonstrate how much they can impact education. Having spoken to professors who have personally experimented with iPads in classrooms, I can tell you it makes a day and night difference just in student engagement when they are given a textbook to study from versus being encouraged to explore a topic and discuss it using mobile devices like the iPad. I've observed biology classes where roughly half of the students used an iPad. These students consistently participated more than the other students. There are several reasons for this behavioral change, but I think the most important one is the design of the device and OS. It focuses on the single task at hand. When an app becomes the whole device and actually discourages multitasking, students pay attention more compared to their distracting laptop screens. Compared to laptop users, they also benefitted from a lack of a physical barrier from the laptop screen between the student and instructor. Those students that had no electronic device and just depended on the textbook generally participated the least and seemed least interested. It will be interesting to see how these devices continue to change how classrooms operate as more and more schools open up to the idea. Keep in mind that the target audience is not tech savvy nerds, but the typical student, who for the most part is still afraid of using traditional laptops. These students, however, live off of their cell phones, so why not take advantage of an environment they are already comfortable in to encourage learning instead of forcing them into a foreign environment?

WalterBright 16y ago
Back in the olden daze, I was taught in college with nothing more than a prof and a blackboard, and I took notes. It works fine. I learned a helluva lot in a very short time. The thing is, it takes work to learn something. You have to make an effort. Labor saving machinery doesn't help any more than using a motorcycle to train for a marathon. As they say in athletics, no pain = no gain.
- guptaneil 16y ago
  It worked fine for you, me, and the majority of HN. However, something clearly isn't working in the education system for the majority of students today, hence all the talk of "educational reform." Nobody will disagree that it takes work to learn, and I am by no means proposing that technology is a magic bullet that will make learning easy all of a sudden. All I am suggesting is that technology can help make aspects of learning easier in order to allow students to focus on the more difficult aspects. Just like athletes wear specialized gear to reduce unnecessary pain, we can use technology to reduce unnecessary work in the education system and focus on the actual learning.
  - ctdonath 16y ago
    Yes, something is clearly not working in the education system: students are not learning "DO THE WORK". Sure nifty gadgets can help - but only if the student is going to do the work in the first place. I'm not talking about "difficult aspects", I'm talking about the very simplest of tasks, like starting an online at-your-convenience quiz, or handing in a homework assignment with no more content than "I'm confused". I'm talking about students who do so little that if you gave them 100% on everything they do submit they still won't break a 50%. No amount of specialized gear will help an athlete if he won't move when the game begins.
    - guptaneil 16y ago
      So you're proposing that for those students who have not yet been motivated to work hard as a result of a broken system, we should just keep trying to force them through that system with no change? There are many, many reasons why the education system is not working, and there are many proposed solutions. No one solution is going to fix things, but they can contribute steps towards the overall solution. By dismissing all technology as nifty gadgets and refusing to even consider changing a broken system for a new generation, you're giving up before even trying. One reason the educational system isn't working anymore is the behavioral changes in children that have been encouraged through cell phone and social networking usage. It's been shown that face-to-face discussion is intimidating and harmful to brainstorming or learning effectiveness [1]. This is why children and young adults prefer texting and communicating through Facebook over face-to-face socializing or even phone calls. Despite this fact, the size of classrooms continue to grow as we cram more and more students together to fight for the instructor's attention and to discuss topics in front of each other. Then we sit back and wonder, why students are intimidated and are unable to learn. We have a classroom full of unengaged students staring blankly at an instructor, we know that they're intimidated to engage and ask questions in front of such a large group, and we know that they already have mobile devices on them that they are comfortable communicating and engaging with in large groups. But instead of taking advantage of those devices, you (and everybody else) seem to want to ignore everything and just keep trying to force students through a system that's not working for them anymore. [1]: http://books.google.com/books?id=RNiFM9br5PwC&lpg=PP1&dq=medici%20effect&pg=PA108#v=onepage&q=osborns%20claim&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=RNiFM9br5PwC&lpg=PP1&#3...