4 ms·

Not a surprise. Most people writing commercial front end code have absolutely no idea how to do their jobs without 300mb of framework code. That alone, able to

Not a surprise. Most people writing commercial front end code have absolutely no idea how to do their jobs without 300mb of framework code. That alone, able to write to the basic standards and understand simple data structures, qualifies my higher than average salary for a front end developer without having to do any real work at work.

aequitas 6y ago
There is also a big "runs-on-my-machine" factor. Where the machine is the developers high-tier laptop hooked up to Gigabit LAN and Fiber WAN with <5ms ping and >100Mbit symmetric. Luckely there are tools like Lighthouse[0] but with all the abstractions and frameworks inbetween it is often impossible to introduce the required changes without messing up the quality or complexity of the code/deployment. [0] https://developers.google.com/web/tools/lighthouse https://developers.google.com/web/tools/lighthouse
jerf 6y ago
An uncompressed RGB 1920x1080 bitmap is 6,220,800 bytes. When your webpage is heavier than a straight-up, uncompressed bitmap of it would be... something's gone wrong. We're not quite there, since web pages are generally more than one screen, but we're getting close. Motivated searchers could probably find a concrete example of such a page somewhere.
- lstamour 6y ago
  What’s funny is that’s how Opera Mini achieves its great compression for 2G and 3G network use... it renders mostly server-side, with link text and position offsets/sizes, last I used it...
  - BenjiWiebe 6y ago
    Browsing the internet with opera mini actually feels pretty responsive, until you come to a site that plain doesn't work.
sumtechguy 6y ago
That mentality is not 'new'. No, you can not add the whole c++ std lib into our code. Yes, I know it is useful. Yes, that will save you 2 hours of work. However, the code no longer even fits into the 1MB of flash we have. Yes we can ask for a new design the management would love to spend 500k on spinning a new design and getting all of the paperwork for it done, and our customers would love replacing everything they have for functionally equivalent hardware that now costs 50 dollars more each. But at least you saved 2 hours writing some code.
- kyboren 6y ago
  I understand where you're coming from, and I appreciate the constraints of embedded system design, but this is a pretty extreme scenario. Management should seriously consider whether the 0.01c saved on that 8Mb chip is worth the design overhead from very tight constraints. There is most likely a pin-compatible 16Mb chip that would eliminate all the pain. Yes, I know that in high volumes every fraction of a penny counts. But if you frequently find yourself engineering your way out of trivial constraints, you might be doing it wrong.
  - sumtechguy 6y ago
    My point was it was not a new thing. 8MB would have probably been well over 250 dollars worth of new parts at that time. Plus the re-cert and if you could fit it on the existing board. These days you would not be talking with a small amount even in the init design (hopefully).
propelol 6y ago
They don't have any idea because very few are willing to pay to have a website that's faster, so there is no incentive to learn it.
phendrenad2 6y ago
You found someone willing to pay for developers who can get better performance out of a site? Must be FAANG?
- austincheney 6y ago
  No. It’s a tragedy of hiring bias. Interviewers, when conducting mass interviews to fill an open position, tend to prefer what they perceive to be is either the strongest technical candidate or the candidate who makes them feel the least insecure. Then the candidate is selected and goes to work where the selection bias fades into expectations of conformity onto a bell curve. The people who conform to the middle of the curve are generally the ideal employees. The people at the low end of the curve are either released or retained as padding against future layoffs. The people at the high end of the bell curve are an anomaly. Those people are far more productive but are willing to use less popular conventions to achieve superior results which tends to result in friction.

aequitas 6y ago

There is also a big "runs-on-my-machine" factor. Where the machine is the developers high-tier laptop hooked up to Gigabit LAN and Fiber WAN with <5ms ping and >100Mbit symmetric. Luckely there are tools like Lighthouse[0] but with all the abstractions and frameworks inbetween it is often impossible to introduce the required changes without messing up the quality or complexity of the code/deployment. [0] https://developers.google.com/web/tools/lighthouse https://developers.google.com/web/tools/lighthouse

jerf 6y ago

An uncompressed RGB 1920x1080 bitmap is 6,220,800 bytes. When your webpage is heavier than a straight-up, uncompressed bitmap of it would be... something's gone wrong. We're not quite there, since web pages are generally more than one screen, but we're getting close. Motivated searchers could probably find a concrete example of such a page somewhere.

lstamour 6y ago
What’s funny is that’s how Opera Mini achieves its great compression for 2G and 3G network use... it renders mostly server-side, with link text and position offsets/sizes, last I used it...
- BenjiWiebe 6y ago
  Browsing the internet with opera mini actually feels pretty responsive, until you come to a site that plain doesn't work.

sumtechguy 6y ago

That mentality is not 'new'. No, you can not add the whole c++ std lib into our code. Yes, I know it is useful. Yes, that will save you 2 hours of work. However, the code no longer even fits into the 1MB of flash we have. Yes we can ask for a new design the management would love to spend 500k on spinning a new design and getting all of the paperwork for it done, and our customers would love replacing everything they have for functionally equivalent hardware that now costs 50 dollars more each. But at least you saved 2 hours writing some code.

kyboren 6y ago
I understand where you're coming from, and I appreciate the constraints of embedded system design, but this is a pretty extreme scenario. Management should seriously consider whether the 0.01c saved on that 8Mb chip is worth the design overhead from very tight constraints. There is most likely a pin-compatible 16Mb chip that would eliminate all the pain. Yes, I know that in high volumes every fraction of a penny counts. But if you frequently find yourself engineering your way out of trivial constraints, you might be doing it wrong.
- sumtechguy 6y ago
  My point was it was not a new thing. 8MB would have probably been well over 250 dollars worth of new parts at that time. Plus the re-cert and if you could fit it on the existing board. These days you would not be talking with a small amount even in the init design (hopefully).

propelol 6y ago

They don't have any idea because very few are willing to pay to have a website that's faster, so there is no incentive to learn it.

phendrenad2 6y ago

You found someone willing to pay for developers who can get better performance out of a site? Must be FAANG?

austincheney 6y ago
No. It’s a tragedy of hiring bias. Interviewers, when conducting mass interviews to fill an open position, tend to prefer what they perceive to be is either the strongest technical candidate or the candidate who makes them feel the least insecure. Then the candidate is selected and goes to work where the selection bias fades into expectations of conformity onto a bell curve. The people who conform to the middle of the curve are generally the ideal employees. The people at the low end of the curve are either released or retained as padding against future layoffs. The people at the high end of the bell curve are an anomaly. Those people are far more productive but are willing to use less popular conventions to achieve superior results which tends to result in friction.