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There are a lot of issues with using war as a mindset. There is no enemy here, it is a natural disaster. There may not be an end, even with a vaccine this may n

by neaden 6y ago

There are a lot of issues with using war as a mindset. There is no enemy here, it is a natural disaster. There may not be an end, even with a vaccine this may never go away. I've seen how the War on Drugs, War on Poverty, and War on Terror have been absolute failures in my lifetime and promoted incorrect thinking on how to handle these issues, I do not want to see the same thing happen here.

mytailorisrich 6y ago
Using war as a mindset is very apt: It means discipline, effort, thinking as a group, individual sacrifice. All positive and useful things when fighting a pandemic. I don't see a problem with the term. Edit: I'm puzzled by some of the replies and ideas on what being at war means. It does mean solidarity, collaboration, cooperation, including extensive international collaboration. A prime example is WWII. It think it is not unreasonable to call covid-19 an enemy that must be defeated if that focuses minds. It is in fact very common to use war-like analogies in campaigns against diseases. That includes smallpox and polio.
- neaden 6y ago
  War means enemy, killing, strict hierarchy, dehumanizing the enemy, us vs. them mindset. We need a collaborative, cooperative, understanding approach for dealing with this. In your response to your edit I think you have a very rosy view of war. WW2 involved setting cities on fire, locking up ethnic minorities because of their ancestry, and forcing removal of people from one country on the other based on their ethnicity and language. And all of that was on the part of the U.S.
  - ryandrake 6y ago
    Assuming OP is an American... Warning, generalizations ahead: Unfortunately you really can't take coordinated, collective political action on anything in the USA unless you pretend it's a "war". That's why we name things like "War on Drugs" and "War on Terror". The only way you can even hope to convince Americans to put their political team aside and get behind an idea is to convince them that they are fighting a war against some kind of enemy. So I can understand the attempt to label this a war--the intentions are good.
    - neaden 6y ago
      IME as an American calling something as a war is a way for the people calling it that to start demanding a lot of power and money and casting their opponents as soft. I don't want to see a Patriot Act/AUMF equivalent for the Coronavirus.
- kergonath 6y ago
  A war means an enemy you need to shoot at and ultimately defeat. An enemy power that want to take something (or refuses you take something) and that you need to subdue and negotiate with. The point of a war is never to exterminate a people or species. Modern asymmetric warfare already stretches the concept, but it is entirely unhelpful here. Everything you mention should exist even without a war, it is just the foundation of a civilised society. Rule of law by definition requires us to discipline ourselves. There are plenty of situations besides playing soldier where we work with others towards a common great goal. Seeing everything as a war just reinforces black-and-white thinking and seeing everything as a zero-sum game, when the times call for solidarity and international collaboration. We need the opposite of the knee jerk phony patriotism and nationalism that get exacerbated by all this tough talking. It is a natural disaster, not a war. We have analogies that work. We eradicated smallpox and went almost there with polio. There is no need to find ennemies.

by neaden 6y ago

mytailorisrich 6y ago

Using war as a mindset is very apt: It means discipline, effort, thinking as a group, individual sacrifice. All positive and useful things when fighting a pandemic. I don't see a problem with the term. Edit: I'm puzzled by some of the replies and ideas on what being at war means. It does mean solidarity, collaboration, cooperation, including extensive international collaboration. A prime example is WWII. It think it is not unreasonable to call covid-19 an enemy that must be defeated if that focuses minds. It is in fact very common to use war-like analogies in campaigns against diseases. That includes smallpox and polio.

neaden 6y ago
War means enemy, killing, strict hierarchy, dehumanizing the enemy, us vs. them mindset. We need a collaborative, cooperative, understanding approach for dealing with this. In your response to your edit I think you have a very rosy view of war. WW2 involved setting cities on fire, locking up ethnic minorities because of their ancestry, and forcing removal of people from one country on the other based on their ethnicity and language. And all of that was on the part of the U.S.
- ryandrake 6y ago
  Assuming OP is an American... Warning, generalizations ahead: Unfortunately you really can't take coordinated, collective political action on anything in the USA unless you pretend it's a "war". That's why we name things like "War on Drugs" and "War on Terror". The only way you can even hope to convince Americans to put their political team aside and get behind an idea is to convince them that they are fighting a war against some kind of enemy. So I can understand the attempt to label this a war--the intentions are good.
  - neaden 6y ago
    IME as an American calling something as a war is a way for the people calling it that to start demanding a lot of power and money and casting their opponents as soft. I don't want to see a Patriot Act/AUMF equivalent for the Coronavirus.
kergonath 6y ago
A war means an enemy you need to shoot at and ultimately defeat. An enemy power that want to take something (or refuses you take something) and that you need to subdue and negotiate with. The point of a war is never to exterminate a people or species. Modern asymmetric warfare already stretches the concept, but it is entirely unhelpful here. Everything you mention should exist even without a war, it is just the foundation of a civilised society. Rule of law by definition requires us to discipline ourselves. There are plenty of situations besides playing soldier where we work with others towards a common great goal. Seeing everything as a war just reinforces black-and-white thinking and seeing everything as a zero-sum game, when the times call for solidarity and international collaboration. We need the opposite of the knee jerk phony patriotism and nationalism that get exacerbated by all this tough talking. It is a natural disaster, not a war. We have analogies that work. We eradicated smallpox and went almost there with polio. There is no need to find ennemies.