6 ms·

Isn't keeping the 30% on refunded apps bad practice, regardless of the justification? Well, yes, if it's true, which it wasn't.

gruez 6y ago
Okay, so what are the situations where it can be false? * apple actually did communicate to them, but it was via carrier pigeon or something and it got lost * apple is under gag order * the developer is actually a long time repeat offender and is trying to evade via sockpuppet accounts None of them seem plausible to me. Also, unlike with the apple 30% refund fiasco, we know for sure this is happening, because other users are tweeting that they're receiving error messages when trying to install his software.
- hunter2_ 6y ago
  How does other users receiving errors prove that the developer received no warning? Your first bullet point seems entirely plausible, albeit the failure mode is likely less avian.
  - charlieMonroe 6y ago
    Hi, I'm the developer. * No email in my spam box. * My contact address is still working and have received notifications about them approving my updates for the App Store yesterday (so saying that they have no way of contacting me is not true). * No known breach of account. * No accidental revocation (I was sleeping while this happened). * The certificates are revoked as you can verify via command line.
    - sjs382 6y ago
      Please keep us updated with what comes of this!
      - charlieMonroe 6y ago
        See https://blog.charliemonroe.net/a-day-without-business/ https://blog.charliemonroe.net/a-day-without-business/
- sjs382 6y ago
  It doesn't take much imagination to come up with other scenarios. No idea if any of these are true. * apple actually did communicate to them, but it went to the developer's spam box. * apple actually did communicate to them, but sent it to an old email address that the developer never updated. * apple actually did communicate to them, but it was via a developer dashboard that the developer rarely checks. * apple didn't revoke it. something else is going on.
  - hunter2_ 6y ago
    You make all good points except for the dashboard. I don't believe that posting a message on your own property can be construed as sending a communication (and for something like this situation, we're talking about sending when we say communicating). It would be like having to go to a lender's headquarters for financial statements and tax documents.
  - gruez 6y ago
    >* apple actually did communicate to them, but it went to the developer's spam box. Isn't "check your spam box" the same thing you're going to do if you're looking for an email that you're expecting? >* apple actually did communicate to them, but sent it to an old email address that the developer never updated. plausible, but seems unlikely that'd be the case, considering that this is a semi-important account that you won't use a throwaway account for. Also, isn't your itunes connect (app store) login based on your apple id, which is based on your email? >* apple actually did communicate to them, but it was via a developer dashboard that the developer rarely checks. His tweet said that his account was suspended, so he probably found that out while trying to log in, or got an email.
  - _qulr 6y ago
    > apple actually did communicate to them, but it went to the developer's spam box. Why are so many people assuming that Apple would only email a developer about revoking their certificate, a drastic action that suddenly kills all of the developer's apps? Apple has the phone number of every member of their developer program. Anything less than an immediate phone call from Apple in this situation would be gross negligence. > apple didn't revoke it. something else is going on. It's revoked. Any Mac user can verify this with "codesign --verify" on any of the apps on the developer's website that are still available for download.
- ballenf 6y ago
  - Developer was hacked and is unaware of it. - Developer accidentally clicked "revoke my cert" (no idea if that's a real button, but that's not the point). - A national security agency sent one of those scary letters preventing Apple from speaking but requiring the action. - Developer had a mental breakdown and has lost grip on reality. - Developer realized app was infected with malware and ... Truth is stranger than fiction, so it's actually really hard to think of all the possible strange explanations. Which is why it seems imminently reasonable to take a wait and see approach at least for a reasonable period of time.
  - gruez 6y ago
    > - Developer was hacked and is unaware of it. If that's the case why wasn't that communicated to him? >- Developer accidentally clicked "revoke my cert" (no idea if that's a real button, but that's not the point). >- Developer had a mental breakdown and has lost grip on reality. While these are possible, they seem very unlikely. Compare the numerous cases of Big Tech silently revoking people's account with no notice or appeal, to the number of times that someone made a public announcement, and then went "nvm it was me lol".
    - ilikehurdles 6y ago
      Big Tech is not a monolithic entity and citing cases across different entities may not be an appropriate way to compare these issues. Asking for patience while both sides have a chance to explain the situation is reasonable. Also, whenever you suggest something is "very unlikely," keep in mind that this likelihood is one instance in the context of 20 million developers. Are you suggesting it's like a 1 out of 100 chance, or a 1 out of 20 million chance?
  - LorenPechtel 6y ago
    You first case is the first thing that came to mind--his certificate was found to have signed malware. They would revoke without notice in such a situation.
- moogleii 6y ago
  > Okay, so what are the situations where it can be false? I think many people ask themselves that just before they grab the pitchforks.
draw_down 6y ago
Yeah I guess all the people yelling at this guy that his app doesn’t work are all just made up.

gruez 6y ago

Okay, so what are the situations where it can be false? * apple actually did communicate to them, but it was via carrier pigeon or something and it got lost * apple is under gag order * the developer is actually a long time repeat offender and is trying to evade via sockpuppet accounts None of them seem plausible to me. Also, unlike with the apple 30% refund fiasco, we know for sure this is happening, because other users are tweeting that they're receiving error messages when trying to install his software.

hunter2_ 6y ago
How does other users receiving errors prove that the developer received no warning? Your first bullet point seems entirely plausible, albeit the failure mode is likely less avian.
- charlieMonroe 6y ago
  Hi, I'm the developer. * No email in my spam box. * My contact address is still working and have received notifications about them approving my updates for the App Store yesterday (so saying that they have no way of contacting me is not true). * No known breach of account. * No accidental revocation (I was sleeping while this happened). * The certificates are revoked as you can verify via command line.
  - sjs382 6y ago
    Please keep us updated with what comes of this!
    - charlieMonroe 6y ago
      See https://blog.charliemonroe.net/a-day-without-business/ https://blog.charliemonroe.net/a-day-without-business/
sjs382 6y ago
It doesn't take much imagination to come up with other scenarios. No idea if any of these are true. * apple actually did communicate to them, but it went to the developer's spam box. * apple actually did communicate to them, but sent it to an old email address that the developer never updated. * apple actually did communicate to them, but it was via a developer dashboard that the developer rarely checks. * apple didn't revoke it. something else is going on.
- hunter2_ 6y ago
  You make all good points except for the dashboard. I don't believe that posting a message on your own property can be construed as sending a communication (and for something like this situation, we're talking about sending when we say communicating). It would be like having to go to a lender's headquarters for financial statements and tax documents.
- gruez 6y ago
  >* apple actually did communicate to them, but it went to the developer's spam box. Isn't "check your spam box" the same thing you're going to do if you're looking for an email that you're expecting? >* apple actually did communicate to them, but sent it to an old email address that the developer never updated. plausible, but seems unlikely that'd be the case, considering that this is a semi-important account that you won't use a throwaway account for. Also, isn't your itunes connect (app store) login based on your apple id, which is based on your email? >* apple actually did communicate to them, but it was via a developer dashboard that the developer rarely checks. His tweet said that his account was suspended, so he probably found that out while trying to log in, or got an email.
- _qulr 6y ago
  > apple actually did communicate to them, but it went to the developer's spam box. Why are so many people assuming that Apple would only email a developer about revoking their certificate, a drastic action that suddenly kills all of the developer's apps? Apple has the phone number of every member of their developer program. Anything less than an immediate phone call from Apple in this situation would be gross negligence. > apple didn't revoke it. something else is going on. It's revoked. Any Mac user can verify this with "codesign --verify" on any of the apps on the developer's website that are still available for download.
ballenf 6y ago
- Developer was hacked and is unaware of it. - Developer accidentally clicked "revoke my cert" (no idea if that's a real button, but that's not the point). - A national security agency sent one of those scary letters preventing Apple from speaking but requiring the action. - Developer had a mental breakdown and has lost grip on reality. - Developer realized app was infected with malware and ... Truth is stranger than fiction, so it's actually really hard to think of all the possible strange explanations. Which is why it seems imminently reasonable to take a wait and see approach at least for a reasonable period of time.
- gruez 6y ago
  > - Developer was hacked and is unaware of it. If that's the case why wasn't that communicated to him? >- Developer accidentally clicked "revoke my cert" (no idea if that's a real button, but that's not the point). >- Developer had a mental breakdown and has lost grip on reality. While these are possible, they seem very unlikely. Compare the numerous cases of Big Tech silently revoking people's account with no notice or appeal, to the number of times that someone made a public announcement, and then went "nvm it was me lol".
  - ilikehurdles 6y ago
    Big Tech is not a monolithic entity and citing cases across different entities may not be an appropriate way to compare these issues. Asking for patience while both sides have a chance to explain the situation is reasonable. Also, whenever you suggest something is "very unlikely," keep in mind that this likelihood is one instance in the context of 20 million developers. Are you suggesting it's like a 1 out of 100 chance, or a 1 out of 20 million chance?
- LorenPechtel 6y ago
  You first case is the first thing that came to mind--his certificate was found to have signed malware. They would revoke without notice in such a situation.
moogleii 6y ago
> Okay, so what are the situations where it can be false? I think many people ask themselves that just before they grab the pitchforks.

draw_down 6y ago

Yeah I guess all the people yelling at this guy that his app doesn’t work are all just made up.