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I really like VS Code, but am definitely wary of the way that it intermingles open source, proprietary code and remote services. For that reason, I use the VSCo

I really like VS Code, but am definitely wary of the way that it intermingles open source, proprietary code and remote services. For that reason, I use the VSCodium build most of the time. You definitely need to take responsibility and read the documentation for each extension that you decide to install. You may be surprised. I would also disagree with the article and recommend that you disable telemetry, unless you specifically decide that you want that copy of VS Code and those extensions to send data. I understand the value of telemetry data, but I think that turning it on by default is unethical: software should not be written to automatically transmit data to remote systems without explicit user consent.

mschuster91 6y ago
> but I think that turning it on by default is unethical Not to mention illegal in the EU without explicit informed consent. Accept-by-default etc have been ruled illegal by courts many times.
- blackoil 6y ago
  Does telemetry include any GDPR data?
  - mschuster91 6y ago
    Of course it does, the IP address alone is viewed as PII.
    - esperent 6y ago
      What makes you think they log IP addresses?
      - mschuster91 6y ago
        Under GDPR any kind of data processing falls under the protection umbrella. And that includes the data processing that automatically happens during the creation of a TCP/IP connection - where the recipient party automatically gains knowledge of the IP address of the other side. For a web site itself this is generally fine as it is a technical necessity and intended by the user... however stuff that is not necessary to fulfill the user intention such as any kind of tracking or telemetry is opt-in only. And yes this was and is the explicit intention why the GDPR was passed in the first place: get rid of involuntary tracking, telemetry and other data thefts.
        esperent 6y ago
        > Under GDPR any kind of data processing falls under the protection umbrella. If processing IPs always required consent, every website, app, and operating system would have to come with a cookie banner. Instead, processing IPs falls under the "required to make things work" banner. I'm sure VSCode processes your IP address for many things such as installing extensions and updates and nobody is arguing they need consent for those. This particular case is complicated since it's telemetry, however, they are gathering non-identifying data. I suspect this is currently a grey area of the GDPR which would take a lot of money and lawyer time to work out. In the meantime, MS (and many others) are taking the point of view that this non-identifying data gathering is important for the work of making the software better and therefore doesn't require consent. Personally, that seems reasonable. None of my actual identifying data is being collected, so this matches the spirit of the law at least, if not the letter.
        mschuster91 6y ago
        > If processing IPs always required consent, every website, app, and operating system would have to come with a cookie banner. Or, you know, they could just not do data collection or limit to reasonable amounts? The way stuff used to be before ubiquitous broadband connections? As the GDPR intended? > Instead, processing IPs falls under the "required to make things work" banner. I'm sure VSCode processes your IP address for many things such as installing extensions and updates and nobody is arguing they need consent for those. Because installing updates is something the user wants and needs (and is recommended by international IT security standard). But telemetry is not something the user wants or needs and the software works fine without the data, therefore it should be opt-in only. The problem: Microsoft formally has the Ireland subsidiary listed for data processing (as many US tech companies do), and the Irish DPO is notorious for being slow and lax. It will take years for courts to decide on that matter.
        esperent 6y ago
        Well, I honestly don't care enough about non-identifying data being collected to continue this discussion. However, if you really feel that this is illegal under the GDPR, rather than wait for lawyers to get involved (which might never happen), why not open an issue on the VSCode repo and discuss it there? Even if they dismiss it, it might help matters for lawyers at a later date - as in, they can point to the issue that was opened and say, you cannot deny being aware of this issue because you dismissed people's concerns previously.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - esperent 6y ago
    Not a complete answer but at least they have made some effort to consider this. If you think it's not good enough, you could raise an issue on the code repo. I've found them quite responsive there. https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/getstarted/telemetry#_gdpr-and-vs-code https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/getstarted/telemetry#_gdp...
  - GordonS 6y ago
    AFAIK, no. But there is also the EU ePrivacy Regulation, which is some ways is stricter - I'm not actually sure it if applies to software, or just websites though?

mschuster91 6y ago

> but I think that turning it on by default is unethical Not to mention illegal in the EU without explicit informed consent. Accept-by-default etc have been ruled illegal by courts many times.

blackoil 6y ago
Does telemetry include any GDPR data?
- mschuster91 6y ago
  Of course it does, the IP address alone is viewed as PII.
  - esperent 6y ago
    What makes you think they log IP addresses?
    - mschuster91 6y ago
      Under GDPR any kind of data processing falls under the protection umbrella. And that includes the data processing that automatically happens during the creation of a TCP/IP connection - where the recipient party automatically gains knowledge of the IP address of the other side. For a web site itself this is generally fine as it is a technical necessity and intended by the user... however stuff that is not necessary to fulfill the user intention such as any kind of tracking or telemetry is opt-in only. And yes this was and is the explicit intention why the GDPR was passed in the first place: get rid of involuntary tracking, telemetry and other data thefts.
      - esperent 6y ago
        > Under GDPR any kind of data processing falls under the protection umbrella. If processing IPs always required consent, every website, app, and operating system would have to come with a cookie banner. Instead, processing IPs falls under the "required to make things work" banner. I'm sure VSCode processes your IP address for many things such as installing extensions and updates and nobody is arguing they need consent for those. This particular case is complicated since it's telemetry, however, they are gathering non-identifying data. I suspect this is currently a grey area of the GDPR which would take a lot of money and lawyer time to work out. In the meantime, MS (and many others) are taking the point of view that this non-identifying data gathering is important for the work of making the software better and therefore doesn't require consent. Personally, that seems reasonable. None of my actual identifying data is being collected, so this matches the spirit of the law at least, if not the letter.
        mschuster91 6y ago
        > If processing IPs always required consent, every website, app, and operating system would have to come with a cookie banner. Or, you know, they could just not do data collection or limit to reasonable amounts? The way stuff used to be before ubiquitous broadband connections? As the GDPR intended? > Instead, processing IPs falls under the "required to make things work" banner. I'm sure VSCode processes your IP address for many things such as installing extensions and updates and nobody is arguing they need consent for those. Because installing updates is something the user wants and needs (and is recommended by international IT security standard). But telemetry is not something the user wants or needs and the software works fine without the data, therefore it should be opt-in only. The problem: Microsoft formally has the Ireland subsidiary listed for data processing (as many US tech companies do), and the Irish DPO is notorious for being slow and lax. It will take years for courts to decide on that matter.
        esperent 6y ago
        Well, I honestly don't care enough about non-identifying data being collected to continue this discussion. However, if you really feel that this is illegal under the GDPR, rather than wait for lawyers to get involved (which might never happen), why not open an issue on the VSCode repo and discuss it there? Even if they dismiss it, it might help matters for lawyers at a later date - as in, they can point to the issue that was opened and say, you cannot deny being aware of this issue because you dismissed people's concerns previously.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- esperent 6y ago
  Not a complete answer but at least they have made some effort to consider this. If you think it's not good enough, you could raise an issue on the code repo. I've found them quite responsive there. https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/getstarted/telemetry#_gdpr-and-vs-code https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/getstarted/telemetry#_gdp...
- GordonS 6y ago
  AFAIK, no. But there is also the EU ePrivacy Regulation, which is some ways is stricter - I'm not actually sure it if applies to software, or just websites though?