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> The fact that anti-plagiarism software can't tell the difference between accidental and intentional plagiarism is just one reason that Rebecca Moore Howard, a

by darawk 6y ago

> The fact that anti-plagiarism software can't tell the difference between accidental and intentional plagiarism is just one reason that Rebecca Moore Howard, a professor of writing and rhetoric at Syracuse University, is not a fan. Here's another reason: "The use of a plagiarism-detecting service implicitly positions teachers and students in an adversarial position," Howard says. I don't understand this objection at all. It's just a tool. It tells the teacher "this was plagiarized". It's then up to the teacher to ascertain the moral character of the plagiarism, i.e. if it was intentional or not.

michaelt 6y ago
> I don't understand this objection at all. They feel policing plagiarism turns them into a parking warden or a cop, when they want to be more like a coach, older student or parent. I assume that's important, if you're hoping to have productive exploratory discussions in class, rather than the classic take-notes-in-silence type lecture.
- darawk 6y ago
  If you aren't going to police plagiarism why are you assigning essays at all though?
  - tokai 6y ago
    To facilitate learning ofc. Not using software to check for plagiarism, isn't going to invalidate the use of essay work in learning.
    - darawk 6y ago
      My point is that using software is just a consequence of the desire to check for plagiarism. Your options are: 1. Check for plagiarism poorly by hand. 2. Check for plagiarism thoroughly with software 3. Don't check for plagiarism at all. Option 1 I don't understand at all, and option 3 seems to negate the purpose of assigning essays.
  - notduncansmith 6y ago
    “Police” being the verb in this situation is exactly the problem, just like with actual crime. Like another comment mentioned, this calls more for coaching or mentorship than rule-enforcement and punishment. Aside: I think we should stop using the word “police” for things that are not law-enforcers/punishers.
    - darawk 6y ago
      But that is completely orthogonal to the issue of detection. In order to coach/mentor correctly, you need to know what it is your students are doing. It's still up to the teacher how they respond to plagiarism. But if you don't even know your students are plagiarizing, you're hardly in a position to coach them.
- bitwize 6y ago
  > They feel policing plagiarism turns them into a parking warden or a cop, when they want to be more like a coach, older student or parent. This is new, then. When I was in college, plagiarism was treated as serious academic malpractice, practically on the level of a crime. The gravity of the offense, as well as the ease with which it can be committed, was emphasized. If you quote even a few words from a source without proper attribution (typically as dictated by the MLA), you are plagiarizing. This was drilled into our heads.
dmurray 6y ago
It's "just a tool", but it can be misused by poor teachers and administrators, and it's a lot easier to plausibly misuse (create a rule where everyone who scores more than X% fails) than to use well.
- njb311 6y ago
  I’m sure that’s true, but if you have poor teachers or poor administrative policies/systems then you have a much bigger problem. As a lecturer that has used TurnItIn (because it was an automated part of electronic submission), I would have to say that anyone who just looks at the score is not actually using it. TurnItIn marks up the submitted essay so while grading it I can see exactly where the student has cited other work and where they might be claiming copy/pasted text as their own. I don’t think it should be used for screening essays such that they aren’t actually marked at all, after all that would mean the educator wasn’t doing the work they’re paid for and they wouldn’t be able to give feedback to the student. I’m not even saying it’s good at it’s job, but in the end anything can be misused so we have to keep it in perspective.

by darawk 6y ago

michaelt 6y ago

> I don't understand this objection at all. They feel policing plagiarism turns them into a parking warden or a cop, when they want to be more like a coach, older student or parent. I assume that's important, if you're hoping to have productive exploratory discussions in class, rather than the classic take-notes-in-silence type lecture.

darawk 6y ago
If you aren't going to police plagiarism why are you assigning essays at all though?
- tokai 6y ago
  To facilitate learning ofc. Not using software to check for plagiarism, isn't going to invalidate the use of essay work in learning.
  - darawk 6y ago
    My point is that using software is just a consequence of the desire to check for plagiarism. Your options are: 1. Check for plagiarism poorly by hand. 2. Check for plagiarism thoroughly with software 3. Don't check for plagiarism at all. Option 1 I don't understand at all, and option 3 seems to negate the purpose of assigning essays.
- notduncansmith 6y ago
  “Police” being the verb in this situation is exactly the problem, just like with actual crime. Like another comment mentioned, this calls more for coaching or mentorship than rule-enforcement and punishment. Aside: I think we should stop using the word “police” for things that are not law-enforcers/punishers.
  - darawk 6y ago
    But that is completely orthogonal to the issue of detection. In order to coach/mentor correctly, you need to know what it is your students are doing. It's still up to the teacher how they respond to plagiarism. But if you don't even know your students are plagiarizing, you're hardly in a position to coach them.
bitwize 6y ago
> They feel policing plagiarism turns them into a parking warden or a cop, when they want to be more like a coach, older student or parent. This is new, then. When I was in college, plagiarism was treated as serious academic malpractice, practically on the level of a crime. The gravity of the offense, as well as the ease with which it can be committed, was emphasized. If you quote even a few words from a source without proper attribution (typically as dictated by the MLA), you are plagiarizing. This was drilled into our heads.

dmurray 6y ago

It's "just a tool", but it can be misused by poor teachers and administrators, and it's a lot easier to plausibly misuse (create a rule where everyone who scores more than X% fails) than to use well.

njb311 6y ago
I’m sure that’s true, but if you have poor teachers or poor administrative policies/systems then you have a much bigger problem. As a lecturer that has used TurnItIn (because it was an automated part of electronic submission), I would have to say that anyone who just looks at the score is not actually using it. TurnItIn marks up the submitted essay so while grading it I can see exactly where the student has cited other work and where they might be claiming copy/pasted text as their own. I don’t think it should be used for screening essays such that they aren’t actually marked at all, after all that would mean the educator wasn’t doing the work they’re paid for and they wouldn’t be able to give feedback to the student. I’m not even saying it’s good at it’s job, but in the end anything can be misused so we have to keep it in perspective.