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While I don't condone President Trump's behavior and his approach towards China, and with US losing its place in the world; I find it equally amusing that we in

While I don't condone President Trump's behavior and his approach towards China, and with US losing its place in the world; I find it equally amusing that we in democratic society are willing to kowtow to an authoritarian regime, despite of its overwhelming [1] state of surveillance, Han-supremacy motifs and funding it with more asymmetrical trade policies. Democracy is eroding in front of our eyes and no one seems to care. Hey, at least we can even protest in the west (while getting tear gassed, but not tanks and bullets causing a massacre like 1989). "Take that, America!!!" seems to get people entertained. Not defending America, there are plenty of Americans wanting to say "Take that, China!!!". EU folks are bashing US, US folks are speechless at what their nation is going through, India and China are at arms, Australia has Chinese infestation, Japan is the most Sinophobic country in the world, Taiwan is nervous, Hong Kong is decimated, Eastern EU is going authoritarian, UK is spiraling into isolation, etc. This is not going to be fun to watch. [1] Vice, How China Tracks Everyone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLo3e1Pak-Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLo3e1Pak-Y

menybuvico 6y ago
We're mostly willing to keep enjoying the fruits of Chinese labour because the lifestyle that has emerged in most Western Countries the last 20-25 years depend on the availability of cheaply manufactured goods. Outsourcing of production, import, distribution and selling of those goods is still cheaper than producing them locally, and this allowed a small number of people to skim money off the top and get quite rich, while consumers still get more for their money compared to the old ways. We would be able to cut China off if we wanted to, but prices on electronics, clothing, and many other goods would soar, and I suspect it would piss the younger generations off even more, possibly increasing the risk of civil unrest. In the West, Generations X and XY still remember what life was like before the availability of goods reached current levels, but I can't imagine that the younger generations even realise what it would mean to go back. Besides, you'd probably have to get rid of the post-war generations first in order to get them to agree to it. Thus, we'll just have to grab some popcorn, watch the show and keep trying to put out the fires, hoping the entire house doesn't burn down. As you say, it's not going to be fun.
- fermienrico 6y ago
  Thanks for sharing your perspective.
fatjokes 6y ago
> willing to kowtow to an authoritarian regime It's not about kowtowing. It's about sticking to principles of free trade and the rule of law. It use to be the good guys vs. the bad guys, now it's the bad guys vs. the at-least-we're-not-that-bad guys. What is the point if we show that, if push comes to shove, we're willing to be just as authoritarian?

menybuvico 6y ago

We're mostly willing to keep enjoying the fruits of Chinese labour because the lifestyle that has emerged in most Western Countries the last 20-25 years depend on the availability of cheaply manufactured goods. Outsourcing of production, import, distribution and selling of those goods is still cheaper than producing them locally, and this allowed a small number of people to skim money off the top and get quite rich, while consumers still get more for their money compared to the old ways. We would be able to cut China off if we wanted to, but prices on electronics, clothing, and many other goods would soar, and I suspect it would piss the younger generations off even more, possibly increasing the risk of civil unrest. In the West, Generations X and XY still remember what life was like before the availability of goods reached current levels, but I can't imagine that the younger generations even realise what it would mean to go back. Besides, you'd probably have to get rid of the post-war generations first in order to get them to agree to it. Thus, we'll just have to grab some popcorn, watch the show and keep trying to put out the fires, hoping the entire house doesn't burn down. As you say, it's not going to be fun.

fermienrico 6y ago
Thanks for sharing your perspective.

fatjokes 6y ago

> willing to kowtow to an authoritarian regime It's not about kowtowing. It's about sticking to principles of free trade and the rule of law. It use to be the good guys vs. the bad guys, now it's the bad guys vs. the at-least-we're-not-that-bad guys. What is the point if we show that, if push comes to shove, we're willing to be just as authoritarian?