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Ok so let's say the US does all of this. China continues to force transfer of private company IP, bans apps it see fit, etc. How does the US putting its own hou

Ok so let's say the US does all of this. China continues to force transfer of private company IP, bans apps it see fit, etc. How does the US putting its own house in order solve this? (I am 100% in agreement with you that the US should fix its flaws.)

pishpash 6y ago
First of all Chinese internet and media regulations apply to all companies foreign or domestic. This is completely different from the situation with TikTok. Microsoft, Yahoo, Apple and many others have operated within local regulations in China for many years. Second of all, TikTok is basically a Vine clone, but became more successful because of rapid innovations developed in the large and very competitive Chinese market. If the US did all of what grandparent suggested, there would not have been a TikTok to worry about in the first place because it would have been developed here. [1] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/china-rocks-the-us-not-so-much-according-to-elon-musk-2020-08-02 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/china-rocks-the-us-not-so-...
- nouveaux 6y ago
  I agree with you that TikTok was unfairly singled out. I also agree with you that many US companies have operated legally inside of China. I also agree that the US should get its house in order. China bans apps when the Chinese government disagrees with it. What would your suggestion be for the regarding Chinese apps in the US?
  - pishpash 6y ago
    I think a point of broad agreement is that the US can set up rules of market access reflective of values rather than interests -- things like labor rights or environmental protection for physical goods, or like privacy, non-censorship, clean IP ownership for informational goods -- and they should apply to the whole market. If there are value differences between countries that truly rise to a level that can be considered existential or a threat to national security, these rules will automatically work to discriminate and protect long-term local interests in a way that isn't arbitrary. And if there are not differences, then why should anything be done anyway? Let the winners win. At the moment there is skepticism due to the US never having consistently demonstrated the values it purportedly cares about during all of globalization, not domestically, certainly not abroad. So the fuss about China becomes one of sour grapes more or less, coming to fore because the profits are no longer justifying the loss of competitive advantage. It is an about-face built on opportunism, not strength and moral backbone. Negative reactions built on those grounds will never be as effective as positive and morally defensible ones.
euix 6y ago
If the U.S. was on top of things and firing on all cylinders I don't think countries like China would even have the leverage it has today. The reason China is "hacking your government databases", "cruising over the south china sea", and xyz other greviances is because it sees what everyone else in the world sees. The U.S. is weakening and nature abhors a vacuum. There wouldn't be margin for that to happen if the U.S. was not literally in front of our eyes blowing up in flames.
- nouveaux 6y ago
  I think it's totally fine that the US is not number one. In fact, the economist using a slightly different measurement speculates that China has already overtaken the US in GDP[1]. Regardless, my question is about China continuing to force transfer of private company IP, bans apps as it see fit, not respecting copyright, etc. How do you as United States and Europe deal with it? [1]https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/07/15/how-big-is-chinas-economy-let-the-big-mac-decide https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/07/15/how-big-...

pishpash 6y ago

First of all Chinese internet and media regulations apply to all companies foreign or domestic. This is completely different from the situation with TikTok. Microsoft, Yahoo, Apple and many others have operated within local regulations in China for many years. Second of all, TikTok is basically a Vine clone, but became more successful because of rapid innovations developed in the large and very competitive Chinese market. If the US did all of what grandparent suggested, there would not have been a TikTok to worry about in the first place because it would have been developed here. [1] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/china-rocks-the-us-not-so-much-according-to-elon-musk-2020-08-02 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/china-rocks-the-us-not-so-...

nouveaux 6y ago
I agree with you that TikTok was unfairly singled out. I also agree with you that many US companies have operated legally inside of China. I also agree that the US should get its house in order. China bans apps when the Chinese government disagrees with it. What would your suggestion be for the regarding Chinese apps in the US?
- pishpash 6y ago
  I think a point of broad agreement is that the US can set up rules of market access reflective of values rather than interests -- things like labor rights or environmental protection for physical goods, or like privacy, non-censorship, clean IP ownership for informational goods -- and they should apply to the whole market. If there are value differences between countries that truly rise to a level that can be considered existential or a threat to national security, these rules will automatically work to discriminate and protect long-term local interests in a way that isn't arbitrary. And if there are not differences, then why should anything be done anyway? Let the winners win. At the moment there is skepticism due to the US never having consistently demonstrated the values it purportedly cares about during all of globalization, not domestically, certainly not abroad. So the fuss about China becomes one of sour grapes more or less, coming to fore because the profits are no longer justifying the loss of competitive advantage. It is an about-face built on opportunism, not strength and moral backbone. Negative reactions built on those grounds will never be as effective as positive and morally defensible ones.

euix 6y ago

If the U.S. was on top of things and firing on all cylinders I don't think countries like China would even have the leverage it has today. The reason China is "hacking your government databases", "cruising over the south china sea", and xyz other greviances is because it sees what everyone else in the world sees. The U.S. is weakening and nature abhors a vacuum. There wouldn't be margin for that to happen if the U.S. was not literally in front of our eyes blowing up in flames.

nouveaux 6y ago
I think it's totally fine that the US is not number one. In fact, the economist using a slightly different measurement speculates that China has already overtaken the US in GDP[1]. Regardless, my question is about China continuing to force transfer of private company IP, bans apps as it see fit, not respecting copyright, etc. How do you as United States and Europe deal with it? [1]https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/07/15/how-big-is-chinas-economy-let-the-big-mac-decide https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/07/15/how-big-...