7 ms·

I think the parent was talking about the USA.

by neves 6y ago

refurb 6y ago
It's actually relatively straightforward to get Medicaid coverage for children in the US. There is a specific program to cover them (and pregnant women). https://www.medicaid.gov/chip/index.html https://www.medicaid.gov/chip/index.html "The Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP) is a joint federal and state program that provides health coverage to uninsured children in families with incomes too high to qualify for Medicaid, but too low to afford private coverage."
- tialaramex 6y ago
  I appreciate that for many Americans this feels like it's enough, or at least almost enough, but it's nowhere close. Dozens (every US state and territory is handled separately) of separate systems in which you can fill out a bunch of paperwork to apply to have insurance for children is nowhere close to the zero friction "free at the point of use" goal of universal healthcare. Some countries with universal healthcare don't do a great job of achieving zero friction, but they're all way ahead of a disjointed paperwork process that only results in getting insurance that ought to have been free for everyone from the outset. And, one of the most obvious problems is: CHIP only covers children you can provide an SSN for. So maybe Steve, aged 4 is covered because you had him in San Antonio but his older sister Esther was born in Mexico and travelled over the border with you. She can't get CHIP because she doesn't have an SSN and powerful people want to make sure it stays that way.
  - tristor 6y ago
    Esther’s situation is problematic, but extending socialized benefits to non-citizens is a nonstarter and isn’t the case in any of the other Western societies that supporters of single-payer universal healthcare would like to model the US system on. I am not going to enumerate all the reasons why it’s a nonstarter, but at least one is that it massively increases the cost of any such social program to a point it becomes both practically and politically untenable. I’ve visited and used healthcare services in many of those other Western countries as a foreigner, and every single time I was required to file paperwork and pay a deposit in cash (or rarely by card) before receiving services. I would not have expected any differently, as I’m not a tax-paying citizen in those countries. On a mostly unrelated note, I write this while currently residing in San Antonio (as used in your example scenario).
    - cheerlessbog 6y ago
      I assume you mean “non legal residents” as typically universal healthcare covers legal residents. Do you have evidence that it makes financial sense to leave unauthorized residents (likely) untreated? One might imagine they’re disproportionately young and healthy and not suffering from terminal cancer if they came here to work in fields. Going to the ER uninsured is very expensive for society.
      - tristor 6y ago
        I was legally in every country I’ve been in, including several where I became temporarily resident. In every case as a non-citizen I was obligated to pay and was not covered under the social medicine scheme. I know the rules on non-citizen permanent residents are different in most countries however. I would believe it’s more financially sensible in the larger scheme of things to cover the cost of healthcare for illegal residents, but I haven’t seen any evidence that demonstrates that, and even with such evidence its still politically untenable. My point is that such a scheme is so politically untenable that even existing Western universal healthcare countries do not have such a scheme. It’s far more radical than what is typically advocated in the US.
    - rayiner 6y ago
      Spain has free healthcare for people who immigrated illegally. It’s notable in being the only OECD country to extend non-emergency universal healthcare to such people.
      - tristor 6y ago
        Interesting, I was unaware of that. I spent 53 days in Spain in 2016 (which was awesome by the way) that started off with me going directly to the hospital on arrival because a prior case of bronchitis had escalated into severe pneumonia (more severe than I realized). I was hospitalized for just shy of a week and had to pay a 3000 EUR deposit up front to be admitted and receive treatment. I don’t remember the exact amount of my total bill, but I got the bulk of my deposit back in the end. Maybe they’ve changed the rules since then, but at least my personal experience was the flow was to establish whether I was a Spanish or EU citizen, as I was not I was obligated to pay a sizeable deposit before even being seen for triage. There was certainly no indication any other foreigner would have been treated differently.
  - refurb 6y ago
    Fair point that getting CHIP may not be frictionless and it does vary state by state. But someone without an SSN? In Canada, you don't get healthcare coverage without proof of legal residency. And that's what most (not all) western countries do. Why would we hold the US up to a higher standard?
  - burfog 6y ago
    From the start of this year, Esther has free healthcare. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_universal_health_care#Mexico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_univers... Most likely, Esther can also "provide an SSN". Identity theft is normal.
- lultimouomo 6y ago
  > families with incomes too high to qualify for Medicaid, but too low to afford private coverage. I guess that it is widespread knowledge that you can be in such a situation, but to read it spelled out on medicaid.gov is really something... At least they're nice enough to let you go without medical assistance, but save your children.
DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
Not specifically; the US is not the only country in the world without UH - and UH is not the same thing as single-payer nor free-at-the-point-of-need. Emphasis on “variety of reasons” - which includes the US - the tragedy is that those “variety of reasons” are the most asinine reasons compared to, say, countries that simply haven’t reached the necessary level of civil stability and infrastructure development to support UH.

I think the parent was talking about the USA.

by neves 6y ago

I think the parent was talking about the USA.

It's actually relatively straightforward to get Medicaid coverage for children in the US. There is a specific program to cover them (and pregnant women). https://www.medicaid.gov/chip/index.html https://www.medicaid.gov/chip/index.html "The Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP) is a joint federal and state program that provides health coverage to uninsured children in families with incomes too high to qualify for Medicaid, but too low to afford private coverage."

tialaramex 6y ago
I appreciate that for many Americans this feels like it's enough, or at least almost enough, but it's nowhere close. Dozens (every US state and territory is handled separately) of separate systems in which you can fill out a bunch of paperwork to apply to have insurance for children is nowhere close to the zero friction "free at the point of use" goal of universal healthcare. Some countries with universal healthcare don't do a great job of achieving zero friction, but they're all way ahead of a disjointed paperwork process that only results in getting insurance that ought to have been free for everyone from the outset. And, one of the most obvious problems is: CHIP only covers children you can provide an SSN for. So maybe Steve, aged 4 is covered because you had him in San Antonio but his older sister Esther was born in Mexico and travelled over the border with you. She can't get CHIP because she doesn't have an SSN and powerful people want to make sure it stays that way.
- tristor 6y ago
  Esther’s situation is problematic, but extending socialized benefits to non-citizens is a nonstarter and isn’t the case in any of the other Western societies that supporters of single-payer universal healthcare would like to model the US system on. I am not going to enumerate all the reasons why it’s a nonstarter, but at least one is that it massively increases the cost of any such social program to a point it becomes both practically and politically untenable. I’ve visited and used healthcare services in many of those other Western countries as a foreigner, and every single time I was required to file paperwork and pay a deposit in cash (or rarely by card) before receiving services. I would not have expected any differently, as I’m not a tax-paying citizen in those countries. On a mostly unrelated note, I write this while currently residing in San Antonio (as used in your example scenario).
  - cheerlessbog 6y ago
    I assume you mean “non legal residents” as typically universal healthcare covers legal residents. Do you have evidence that it makes financial sense to leave unauthorized residents (likely) untreated? One might imagine they’re disproportionately young and healthy and not suffering from terminal cancer if they came here to work in fields. Going to the ER uninsured is very expensive for society.
    - tristor 6y ago
      I was legally in every country I’ve been in, including several where I became temporarily resident. In every case as a non-citizen I was obligated to pay and was not covered under the social medicine scheme. I know the rules on non-citizen permanent residents are different in most countries however. I would believe it’s more financially sensible in the larger scheme of things to cover the cost of healthcare for illegal residents, but I haven’t seen any evidence that demonstrates that, and even with such evidence its still politically untenable. My point is that such a scheme is so politically untenable that even existing Western universal healthcare countries do not have such a scheme. It’s far more radical than what is typically advocated in the US.
  - rayiner 6y ago
    Spain has free healthcare for people who immigrated illegally. It’s notable in being the only OECD country to extend non-emergency universal healthcare to such people.
    - tristor 6y ago
      Interesting, I was unaware of that. I spent 53 days in Spain in 2016 (which was awesome by the way) that started off with me going directly to the hospital on arrival because a prior case of bronchitis had escalated into severe pneumonia (more severe than I realized). I was hospitalized for just shy of a week and had to pay a 3000 EUR deposit up front to be admitted and receive treatment. I don’t remember the exact amount of my total bill, but I got the bulk of my deposit back in the end. Maybe they’ve changed the rules since then, but at least my personal experience was the flow was to establish whether I was a Spanish or EU citizen, as I was not I was obligated to pay a sizeable deposit before even being seen for triage. There was certainly no indication any other foreigner would have been treated differently.
- refurb 6y ago
  Fair point that getting CHIP may not be frictionless and it does vary state by state. But someone without an SSN? In Canada, you don't get healthcare coverage without proof of legal residency. And that's what most (not all) western countries do. Why would we hold the US up to a higher standard?
- burfog 6y ago
  From the start of this year, Esther has free healthcare. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_universal_health_care#Mexico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_univers... Most likely, Esther can also "provide an SSN". Identity theft is normal.
lultimouomo 6y ago
> families with incomes too high to qualify for Medicaid, but too low to afford private coverage. I guess that it is widespread knowledge that you can be in such a situation, but to read it spelled out on medicaid.gov is really something... At least they're nice enough to let you go without medical assistance, but save your children.

DaiPlusPlus 6y ago

Not specifically; the US is not the only country in the world without UH - and UH is not the same thing as single-payer nor free-at-the-point-of-need. Emphasis on “variety of reasons” - which includes the US - the tragedy is that those “variety of reasons” are the most asinine reasons compared to, say, countries that simply haven’t reached the necessary level of civil stability and infrastructure development to support UH.