4 ms·

It would depend on the airline. Southwest Airlines, definitely. Some third world airline where their pilots come through pilot mills and take the controls at le

It would depend on the airline. Southwest Airlines, definitely. Some third world airline where their pilots come through pilot mills and take the controls at less than 500 hours? No way. But that is true with any airplane, not just the Max. Statistically Southwest Airlines should have had a crash, yet it was Ethiopian and Lion Air that did. Given the maintenance and pilots history of Lion Air, a crash wasn’t unexpected. Is it a coincidence that no European, American, or Canadian 737s crashed despite flying an order of magnitude more flights in the airplane? There was a recent report that said that a large number (hundreds) of Pakistani airline pilots didn’t have legitimate licenses. That kind of thing is more scary than the 737 Max. The copilot on the Ethiopian airlines crash had just 200 hours of experience. On a US airline, the minimum is 1500 hours. The cause of the malfunction is certainly worthy of discussion, but both the Lion Air and Ethiopian crashes could have been prevented with better pilot actions. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/21/ethiopian-pilots-raised-safety-concerns-years-before-fatal-crash-records-show/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/21/ethiopian... https://www.wsj.com/articles/maintenance-lapse-identified-as-initial-problem-leading-to-lion-air-crash-11545739204 https://www.wsj.com/articles/maintenance-lapse-identified-as... Talking to actual pilots that operate internationally and it’s pretty clear that there are some scary operations going on. Southwest Airlines requires at least 1000 hours of turbine time as a minimum, along with an ATP rating. At Ethiopian, you could get hired with zero hours of turbine time. That’s the real scandal that these airlines put kids in the right seat of a big airliner with less experience than required to get your single engine commercial license in the US.

manquer 6y ago
Southwest and other airlines got lucky. Lion Air pilots were aware of the issue, and did the follow the checklist, however their airspeed was too fast and physical resistance when cutoff switch was triggered was too high they were forced to switch it back on, and MCAS went kicked back in and they didn't have time. I am not sure how much Southwest 's pilot or anyone not trained in this specific scenario could have done much better. Sullenberger the pilot who landed on the Hudson in his testimony pretty much said the same thing after spending time on the simulators with this scenario. It is easy for crews to run out of time solving this issue, the U.S. simulator training did not include the scenario in the real world it is just as likely for a U.S. pilot to have crashed.
iso947 6y ago
Ethiopian is one of the safest airlines in the world, far more so than some tinpot US airline backed by the FAA which covered up Boeing flaws for commercial purposes and still refused to ground the max until every other country had.
bkor 6y ago
> Lion Air and Ethiopian crashes could have been prevented with better pilot actions. Boeing tried to say it was the pilots for a long time. I don't want to fly on a plane whereby you need to be an exceptional pilot to not crash the plane. Further, Lion Air requested additional pilot training. Boeing mocked them for it: https://fortune.com/2020/01/14/boeing-lion-air-extra-737-max-pilot-training-simulator-crash/ https://fortune.com/2020/01/14/boeing-lion-air-extra-737-max... 2 planes crashed really quickly after they were new. > it’s pretty clear that there are some scary operations going on. Two really new planes crashing is only due to pilot error?
- makomk 6y ago
  Lion Air's request for additional training was eminently worthy of mockery from what I could tell - it would've been a lot of hassle, and so brief and cursory to be basically useless if their pilots already knew how to fly a standard 733 and completely inadequate if they didn't.

manquer 6y ago

Southwest and other airlines got lucky. Lion Air pilots were aware of the issue, and did the follow the checklist, however their airspeed was too fast and physical resistance when cutoff switch was triggered was too high they were forced to switch it back on, and MCAS went kicked back in and they didn't have time. I am not sure how much Southwest 's pilot or anyone not trained in this specific scenario could have done much better. Sullenberger the pilot who landed on the Hudson in his testimony pretty much said the same thing after spending time on the simulators with this scenario. It is easy for crews to run out of time solving this issue, the U.S. simulator training did not include the scenario in the real world it is just as likely for a U.S. pilot to have crashed.

iso947 6y ago

Ethiopian is one of the safest airlines in the world, far more so than some tinpot US airline backed by the FAA which covered up Boeing flaws for commercial purposes and still refused to ground the max until every other country had.

bkor 6y ago

> Lion Air and Ethiopian crashes could have been prevented with better pilot actions. Boeing tried to say it was the pilots for a long time. I don't want to fly on a plane whereby you need to be an exceptional pilot to not crash the plane. Further, Lion Air requested additional pilot training. Boeing mocked them for it: https://fortune.com/2020/01/14/boeing-lion-air-extra-737-max-pilot-training-simulator-crash/ https://fortune.com/2020/01/14/boeing-lion-air-extra-737-max... 2 planes crashed really quickly after they were new. > it’s pretty clear that there are some scary operations going on. Two really new planes crashing is only due to pilot error?

makomk 6y ago
Lion Air's request for additional training was eminently worthy of mockery from what I could tell - it would've been a lot of hassle, and so brief and cursory to be basically useless if their pilots already knew how to fly a standard 733 and completely inadequate if they didn't.