4 ms·

So you are agreeing to US adopting same practices as China. Good. Probably what China wants as well.

by riantogo 6y ago

nouveaux 6y ago
I asked what we should do. I'm open to ideas.
- euix 6y ago
  Put your own house order. Invest in you national infrastructure and education. Level off ridiculous tuition and gate keeping of professions that essentially forms an aristocratic class. Introduce reasonable regulation of big tech and corporations to ensure they are of a net benefit to society. Open wide the doors of immigration to top tier talent through out the world and ensure they can settle in the U.S. if desired without waiting lists of up to 100 years. Restore trusts between government and the people through electoral reform that ensure a more proportional representation with respects to the demographic and population changes of the last 50 years. Why is Covid out of control? Because nobody believes anything coming out the White House. If Trump said tomorrow there is a viable vaccine how much of the population will be willing to take it? You know. The things that made America attractive in the first place. American strength comes from within. The real story of the last 20 years isn't why China has gotten so much stronger, sure that was going to happen one way or another but it's beyond your control. What you can control and should ask is why America has gotten so weak. Why out of a nation of 300 million with such great talent, the very best that could be found for national leadership was a failed New York real estate developer? If you try to the bottom with China you won't win.
  - nouveaux 6y ago
    Ok so let's say the US does all of this. China continues to force transfer of private company IP, bans apps it see fit, etc. How does the US putting its own house in order solve this? (I am 100% in agreement with you that the US should fix its flaws.)
    - pishpash 6y ago
      First of all Chinese internet and media regulations apply to all companies foreign or domestic. This is completely different from the situation with TikTok. Microsoft, Yahoo, Apple and many others have operated within local regulations in China for many years. Second of all, TikTok is basically a Vine clone, but became more successful because of rapid innovations developed in the large and very competitive Chinese market. If the US did all of what grandparent suggested, there would not have been a TikTok to worry about in the first place because it would have been developed here. [1] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/china-rocks-the-us-not-so-much-according-to-elon-musk-2020-08-02 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/china-rocks-the-us-not-so-...
      - nouveaux 6y ago
        I agree with you that TikTok was unfairly singled out. I also agree with you that many US companies have operated legally inside of China. I also agree that the US should get its house in order. China bans apps when the Chinese government disagrees with it. What would your suggestion be for the regarding Chinese apps in the US?
        pishpash 6y ago
        I think a point of broad agreement is that the US can set up rules of market access reflective of values rather than interests -- things like labor rights or environmental protection for physical goods, or like privacy, non-censorship, clean IP ownership for informational goods -- and they should apply to the whole market. If there are value differences between countries that truly rise to a level that can be considered existential or a threat to national security, these rules will automatically work to discriminate and protect long-term local interests in a way that isn't arbitrary. And if there are not differences, then why should anything be done anyway? Let the winners win. At the moment there is skepticism due to the US never having consistently demonstrated the values it purportedly cares about during all of globalization, not domestically, certainly not abroad. So the fuss about China becomes one of sour grapes more or less, coming to fore because the profits are no longer justifying the loss of competitive advantage. It is an about-face built on opportunism, not strength and moral backbone. Negative reactions built on those grounds will never be as effective as positive and morally defensible ones.
  - pishpash 6y ago
    I completely agree with this. It is the only way to win, but too bad American hubris won't allow admitting there has been failure in anything. So only more Donalds will be elected in the future in reflection of the infantile scapegoating nature of the electorate.

So you are agreeing to US adopting same practices as China. Good. Probably what China wants as well.

nouveaux 6y ago

I asked what we should do. I'm open to ideas.

euix 6y ago
Put your own house order. Invest in you national infrastructure and education. Level off ridiculous tuition and gate keeping of professions that essentially forms an aristocratic class. Introduce reasonable regulation of big tech and corporations to ensure they are of a net benefit to society. Open wide the doors of immigration to top tier talent through out the world and ensure they can settle in the U.S. if desired without waiting lists of up to 100 years. Restore trusts between government and the people through electoral reform that ensure a more proportional representation with respects to the demographic and population changes of the last 50 years. Why is Covid out of control? Because nobody believes anything coming out the White House. If Trump said tomorrow there is a viable vaccine how much of the population will be willing to take it? You know. The things that made America attractive in the first place. American strength comes from within. The real story of the last 20 years isn't why China has gotten so much stronger, sure that was going to happen one way or another but it's beyond your control. What you can control and should ask is why America has gotten so weak. Why out of a nation of 300 million with such great talent, the very best that could be found for national leadership was a failed New York real estate developer? If you try to the bottom with China you won't win.
- nouveaux 6y ago
  Ok so let's say the US does all of this. China continues to force transfer of private company IP, bans apps it see fit, etc. How does the US putting its own house in order solve this? (I am 100% in agreement with you that the US should fix its flaws.)
  - pishpash 6y ago
    First of all Chinese internet and media regulations apply to all companies foreign or domestic. This is completely different from the situation with TikTok. Microsoft, Yahoo, Apple and many others have operated within local regulations in China for many years. Second of all, TikTok is basically a Vine clone, but became more successful because of rapid innovations developed in the large and very competitive Chinese market. If the US did all of what grandparent suggested, there would not have been a TikTok to worry about in the first place because it would have been developed here. [1] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/china-rocks-the-us-not-so-much-according-to-elon-musk-2020-08-02 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/china-rocks-the-us-not-so-...
    - nouveaux 6y ago
      I agree with you that TikTok was unfairly singled out. I also agree with you that many US companies have operated legally inside of China. I also agree that the US should get its house in order. China bans apps when the Chinese government disagrees with it. What would your suggestion be for the regarding Chinese apps in the US?
      - pishpash 6y ago
        I think a point of broad agreement is that the US can set up rules of market access reflective of values rather than interests -- things like labor rights or environmental protection for physical goods, or like privacy, non-censorship, clean IP ownership for informational goods -- and they should apply to the whole market. If there are value differences between countries that truly rise to a level that can be considered existential or a threat to national security, these rules will automatically work to discriminate and protect long-term local interests in a way that isn't arbitrary. And if there are not differences, then why should anything be done anyway? Let the winners win. At the moment there is skepticism due to the US never having consistently demonstrated the values it purportedly cares about during all of globalization, not domestically, certainly not abroad. So the fuss about China becomes one of sour grapes more or less, coming to fore because the profits are no longer justifying the loss of competitive advantage. It is an about-face built on opportunism, not strength and moral backbone. Negative reactions built on those grounds will never be as effective as positive and morally defensible ones.
- pishpash 6y ago
  I completely agree with this. It is the only way to win, but too bad American hubris won't allow admitting there has been failure in anything. So only more Donalds will be elected in the future in reflection of the infantile scapegoating nature of the electorate.