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For those who are against US retaliation to China, how do you propose competing when China forces transfer of IP, blacklists companies and people when they make

For those who are against US retaliation to China, how do you propose competing when China forces transfer of IP, blacklists companies and people when they make public statements they do not like, and bans apps[1] when apps do not fall inline with China's unethical policies? (I'm being generous here when I say China bans apps for political reasons when they can easily ban to be anti competitive.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_mainland_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_ma...

robert_foss 6y ago
While I have no solution to offer, having two instead of one walled garden protected by a Great Firewall is certainly worse.
- nouveaux 6y ago
  Western democracies at some point need to stand up to the lopsided competitive landscapes. Its one thing if this is a small up and coming country. China being number 2 (or number 1 according to the Economist) in the world deserves push back. They can afford to let companies compete on a more equal playing field now.
  - robert_foss 6y ago
    The US is no victim here, it has maintained its hegemony for 70 years. Maybe it is time for something else. I realize the people who have lived most of their lives in the US don't see the downsides of its hegemony, but rest assured that it is seen far more clearly elsewhere.
    - dodobirdlord 6y ago
      > Maybe it is time for something else. No thanks. It's been a while since the US government perpetrated a genocide. China, not so much.
      - robert_foss 6y ago
        The 100k people who died in Iraq probably wouldn't agree with you.
    - nouveaux 6y ago
      Western democracies include Australia, Europe and many other parts of the world. I agree with you there are plenty of downsides to the hegemony. China being #2 does not need any pity either. So what's wrong with the US pushing back on China?
      - robert_foss 6y ago
        Pushing back is fine, or at least ok. But this mode of creating information divides will only serve to further the cultural distance between all parties.
  - Tehdasi 6y ago
    I agree, but Trump is not putting that frame on it. I suspect he doesn't have a problem with China's 'unfair' competition policies, he just have a problem that the US can't have it's own similar policies. A better president would use this as leverage to get China to change it's policies.
zyang 6y ago
This is a missed opportunity to force China open up. Let Google, FB compete in Chinese market. Win-win all around. Forcing the sale is short sighted and only deepens the divide.
- nouveaux 6y ago
  I'm not supporting the move here. I'm asking what you would do instead. How do you force China to open the market up?
  - est 6y ago
    Setup a web page monitor in both countries that fetch pages periodically and governments must guarantee network SLA.
- joefourier 6y ago
  That has been tried before. Remember Google China? It was forced to follow the same draconian censorship measures as any Chinese companies, and then was forced to leave the country after a cyberattack led to massive amounts of its IP being stolen (the Chinese government denying any links to it, of course).
riantogo 6y ago
So you are agreeing to US adopting same practices as China. Good. Probably what China wants as well.
- nouveaux 6y ago
  I asked what we should do. I'm open to ideas.
  - euix 6y ago
    Put your own house order. Invest in you national infrastructure and education. Level off ridiculous tuition and gate keeping of professions that essentially forms an aristocratic class. Introduce reasonable regulation of big tech and corporations to ensure they are of a net benefit to society. Open wide the doors of immigration to top tier talent through out the world and ensure they can settle in the U.S. if desired without waiting lists of up to 100 years. Restore trusts between government and the people through electoral reform that ensure a more proportional representation with respects to the demographic and population changes of the last 50 years. Why is Covid out of control? Because nobody believes anything coming out the White House. If Trump said tomorrow there is a viable vaccine how much of the population will be willing to take it? You know. The things that made America attractive in the first place. American strength comes from within. The real story of the last 20 years isn't why China has gotten so much stronger, sure that was going to happen one way or another but it's beyond your control. What you can control and should ask is why America has gotten so weak. Why out of a nation of 300 million with such great talent, the very best that could be found for national leadership was a failed New York real estate developer? If you try to the bottom with China you won't win.
    - nouveaux 6y ago
      Ok so let's say the US does all of this. China continues to force transfer of private company IP, bans apps it see fit, etc. How does the US putting its own house in order solve this? (I am 100% in agreement with you that the US should fix its flaws.)

robert_foss 6y ago

While I have no solution to offer, having two instead of one walled garden protected by a Great Firewall is certainly worse.

nouveaux 6y ago
Western democracies at some point need to stand up to the lopsided competitive landscapes. Its one thing if this is a small up and coming country. China being number 2 (or number 1 according to the Economist) in the world deserves push back. They can afford to let companies compete on a more equal playing field now.
- robert_foss 6y ago
  The US is no victim here, it has maintained its hegemony for 70 years. Maybe it is time for something else. I realize the people who have lived most of their lives in the US don't see the downsides of its hegemony, but rest assured that it is seen far more clearly elsewhere.
  - dodobirdlord 6y ago
    > Maybe it is time for something else. No thanks. It's been a while since the US government perpetrated a genocide. China, not so much.
    - robert_foss 6y ago
      The 100k people who died in Iraq probably wouldn't agree with you.
  - nouveaux 6y ago
    Western democracies include Australia, Europe and many other parts of the world. I agree with you there are plenty of downsides to the hegemony. China being #2 does not need any pity either. So what's wrong with the US pushing back on China?
    - robert_foss 6y ago
      Pushing back is fine, or at least ok. But this mode of creating information divides will only serve to further the cultural distance between all parties.
- Tehdasi 6y ago
  I agree, but Trump is not putting that frame on it. I suspect he doesn't have a problem with China's 'unfair' competition policies, he just have a problem that the US can't have it's own similar policies. A better president would use this as leverage to get China to change it's policies.

zyang 6y ago

This is a missed opportunity to force China open up. Let Google, FB compete in Chinese market. Win-win all around. Forcing the sale is short sighted and only deepens the divide.

nouveaux 6y ago
I'm not supporting the move here. I'm asking what you would do instead. How do you force China to open the market up?
- est 6y ago
  Setup a web page monitor in both countries that fetch pages periodically and governments must guarantee network SLA.
joefourier 6y ago
That has been tried before. Remember Google China? It was forced to follow the same draconian censorship measures as any Chinese companies, and then was forced to leave the country after a cyberattack led to massive amounts of its IP being stolen (the Chinese government denying any links to it, of course).

riantogo 6y ago

So you are agreeing to US adopting same practices as China. Good. Probably what China wants as well.

nouveaux 6y ago
I asked what we should do. I'm open to ideas.
- euix 6y ago
  Put your own house order. Invest in you national infrastructure and education. Level off ridiculous tuition and gate keeping of professions that essentially forms an aristocratic class. Introduce reasonable regulation of big tech and corporations to ensure they are of a net benefit to society. Open wide the doors of immigration to top tier talent through out the world and ensure they can settle in the U.S. if desired without waiting lists of up to 100 years. Restore trusts between government and the people through electoral reform that ensure a more proportional representation with respects to the demographic and population changes of the last 50 years. Why is Covid out of control? Because nobody believes anything coming out the White House. If Trump said tomorrow there is a viable vaccine how much of the population will be willing to take it? You know. The things that made America attractive in the first place. American strength comes from within. The real story of the last 20 years isn't why China has gotten so much stronger, sure that was going to happen one way or another but it's beyond your control. What you can control and should ask is why America has gotten so weak. Why out of a nation of 300 million with such great talent, the very best that could be found for national leadership was a failed New York real estate developer? If you try to the bottom with China you won't win.
  - nouveaux 6y ago
    Ok so let's say the US does all of this. China continues to force transfer of private company IP, bans apps it see fit, etc. How does the US putting its own house in order solve this? (I am 100% in agreement with you that the US should fix its flaws.)