3 ms·

Given that the 737 isn't fly by wire the forces needed to operate the controls is something critical that a home sim isn't going to be able to model.

by xvf22 6y ago

skykooler 6y ago
There are force feedback joysticks, though I don't know whether something like MS Flight Simulator supports that.
- makomk 6y ago
  It'd take a pretty fancy home force feedback system to be able to simulate forces in the multiple-pound range, which I think is what it'd take to give an accurate simulation.
  - salawat 6y ago
    Mind, "multi-pound" in this situation is "more force than a grown and fit pilot can reasonably exert from a cockpit seat". I did some napkin math at one point, and the motor on those screwjacks to actuate against the Ethiopian Airlines loads was in the avenue of a 300 ft-lbs if I remember correctly.. (I only remember it was a number similar to what a car engine would be expected to put out). I didn't know the exact gearing arrangement for the trim wheel, but the simulator footage was enough to convince me it certainly wasn't guaranteed to be practical.
Const-me 6y ago
These forces were due to a design issue. Despite 737 ain't fly by wire it still has hydraulics, I think even 2 independent ones for redundancy.
morganw 6y ago
Watch how much effort it takes to adjust trim with the motors disabled https://youtu.be/xixM_cwSLcQ?t=1106 https://youtu.be/xixM_cwSLcQ?t=1106 It's good that MCAS will now disable itself without having to disable the trim motors completely. I wish they'd just taken the hit on a new type rating and given up on MCAS completely after the failures. Perhaps new 737 pilots could get training on NG and MAX at the same time? One thing I'm not seeing much discussion of today (though it was addressed in previous posts about the MAX) is the development process issues that led to the problems in the first place. Some blame it on post-McDonnell-Douglas-merger penny-pinching, non-engineer-indulging managers. Whatever it was, the investigation should have resulted in not just plane modifications, but company ones.
- ummonk 6y ago
  The type rating is not the reason for MCAS. MCAS is there to make the aircraft satisfy certain stability requirements mandated for all planes by the FAA to prevent an inadvertent stall. So even with a new type rating, MCAS would still be needed unless the airframe were massively redesigned.

Given that the 737 isn't fly by wire the forces needed to operate the controls is something critical that a home sim isn't going to be able to model.

by xvf22 6y ago

Given that the 737 isn't fly by wire the forces needed to operate the controls is something critical that a home sim isn't going to be able to model.

skykooler 6y ago

There are force feedback joysticks, though I don't know whether something like MS Flight Simulator supports that.

makomk 6y ago
It'd take a pretty fancy home force feedback system to be able to simulate forces in the multiple-pound range, which I think is what it'd take to give an accurate simulation.
- salawat 6y ago
  Mind, "multi-pound" in this situation is "more force than a grown and fit pilot can reasonably exert from a cockpit seat". I did some napkin math at one point, and the motor on those screwjacks to actuate against the Ethiopian Airlines loads was in the avenue of a 300 ft-lbs if I remember correctly.. (I only remember it was a number similar to what a car engine would be expected to put out). I didn't know the exact gearing arrangement for the trim wheel, but the simulator footage was enough to convince me it certainly wasn't guaranteed to be practical.

Const-me 6y ago

These forces were due to a design issue. Despite 737 ain't fly by wire it still has hydraulics, I think even 2 independent ones for redundancy.

morganw 6y ago

Watch how much effort it takes to adjust trim with the motors disabled https://youtu.be/xixM_cwSLcQ?t=1106 https://youtu.be/xixM_cwSLcQ?t=1106 It's good that MCAS will now disable itself without having to disable the trim motors completely. I wish they'd just taken the hit on a new type rating and given up on MCAS completely after the failures. Perhaps new 737 pilots could get training on NG and MAX at the same time? One thing I'm not seeing much discussion of today (though it was addressed in previous posts about the MAX) is the development process issues that led to the problems in the first place. Some blame it on post-McDonnell-Douglas-merger penny-pinching, non-engineer-indulging managers. Whatever it was, the investigation should have resulted in not just plane modifications, but company ones.

ummonk 6y ago
The type rating is not the reason for MCAS. MCAS is there to make the aircraft satisfy certain stability requirements mandated for all planes by the FAA to prevent an inadvertent stall. So even with a new type rating, MCAS would still be needed unless the airframe were massively redesigned.