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I would. I get it that Boeing messed up the first time, but this was always a failure that was preventable with proper pilot instruction and awareness. Even if

I would. I get it that Boeing messed up the first time, but this was always a failure that was preventable with proper pilot instruction and awareness. Even if they didn't fix the software I couldn't imagine a 737MAX pilot not being aware of this. People still drive Tesla's using autopilot and they drive head on into barriers on the highway or under trailers and decapitate people.

dharmab 6y ago
You have more confidence in the plane than the people who designed and built it. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/business/boeing-737-messages.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/business/boeing-737-messa...
- tridentlead 6y ago
  While Boeing totally screwed the pooch on this one, and I won't be choosing to fly on one if I can, the public having more confidence in a system than its creators/domain experts isn't exactly uncommon. Would you trust your medical record privacy to Windows XP running AVG?
- stevehawk 6y ago
  To my knowledge, we don't actually know that. None of the emails I've seen refer to anyone's title or name. For all I know it's a janitor who heard rumors around a water cooler.
  - dharmab 6y ago
    That's a ridiculous statement. The "Would you put your family on a MAX simulator trained aircraft?" quote comes from page 103 of this PDF [1] and is in the context of a technical discussion of the aircraft's design by people who clearly understand the internals. [1] https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/6653-internal-boeing-communications/606e3fda752a935bc0df/optimized/full.pdf#page=84 https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/6653-internal-boeing...
addicted 6y ago
This is a failure because Boeing cut corners through their design process because they prioritized the following over safety: 1) Bringing it into the market as soon as possible so they had an answer for the neo 2) Ensuring that it flew similar to other 737s so that airlines would pick them instead of the Airbus due to not requiring pilot training. The MCAS/AoA issue is the most easily manifested issue that led to 2 crashes. There’s almost certainly other issues that may also exist with this plane that we don’t know about yet because they’re slightly less likely than the MCAS issue. And it’s possible that some of those other issues may also lead to fatalities. The fundamental problem with the 737Max wasn’t the MCAS or the AOA sensors but the design process which greatly devalued safety. I’m not sure how possible it is to make up for that with after the fact testing.
bkor 6y ago
> preventable with proper pilot instruction and awareness More pilot training? The training that was sold to everyone not to be needed? https://fortune.com/2020/01/14/boeing-lion-air-extra-737-max-pilot-training-simulator-crash/ https://fortune.com/2020/01/14/boeing-lion-air-extra-737-max... It's not the crazy rush to have a new airplane asap? Plus avoiding scrutiny by hiding what MCAS did? Plus hiding scrutiny by having it rely on only one sensor? Plus not assessing MCAS as a new critical system, meaning it should have 2 or 3 sensors as input, plus a new type rating? It wasn't all of that and more.. just some pilot instruction and awareness?

dharmab 6y ago

You have more confidence in the plane than the people who designed and built it. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/business/boeing-737-messages.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/business/boeing-737-messa...

tridentlead 6y ago
While Boeing totally screwed the pooch on this one, and I won't be choosing to fly on one if I can, the public having more confidence in a system than its creators/domain experts isn't exactly uncommon. Would you trust your medical record privacy to Windows XP running AVG?
stevehawk 6y ago
To my knowledge, we don't actually know that. None of the emails I've seen refer to anyone's title or name. For all I know it's a janitor who heard rumors around a water cooler.
- dharmab 6y ago
  That's a ridiculous statement. The "Would you put your family on a MAX simulator trained aircraft?" quote comes from page 103 of this PDF [1] and is in the context of a technical discussion of the aircraft's design by people who clearly understand the internals. [1] https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/6653-internal-boeing-communications/606e3fda752a935bc0df/optimized/full.pdf#page=84 https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/6653-internal-boeing...

addicted 6y ago

This is a failure because Boeing cut corners through their design process because they prioritized the following over safety: 1) Bringing it into the market as soon as possible so they had an answer for the neo 2) Ensuring that it flew similar to other 737s so that airlines would pick them instead of the Airbus due to not requiring pilot training. The MCAS/AoA issue is the most easily manifested issue that led to 2 crashes. There’s almost certainly other issues that may also exist with this plane that we don’t know about yet because they’re slightly less likely than the MCAS issue. And it’s possible that some of those other issues may also lead to fatalities. The fundamental problem with the 737Max wasn’t the MCAS or the AOA sensors but the design process which greatly devalued safety. I’m not sure how possible it is to make up for that with after the fact testing.

bkor 6y ago

> preventable with proper pilot instruction and awareness More pilot training? The training that was sold to everyone not to be needed? https://fortune.com/2020/01/14/boeing-lion-air-extra-737-max-pilot-training-simulator-crash/ https://fortune.com/2020/01/14/boeing-lion-air-extra-737-max... It's not the crazy rush to have a new airplane asap? Plus avoiding scrutiny by hiding what MCAS did? Plus hiding scrutiny by having it rely on only one sensor? Plus not assessing MCAS as a new critical system, meaning it should have 2 or 3 sensors as input, plus a new type rating? It wasn't all of that and more.. just some pilot instruction and awareness?