6 ms·

By "indirectly coerced" you mean that they need food and shelter and they don't have slaves to grow their food and build their house for them?

jahaja 6y ago
> By "indirectly coerced" you mean that they need food and shelter Yes, and more. > and they don't have slaves to grow their food and build their house for them? Is this the level you sink to as soon as Capitalist dogma is questioned? It's not the poor and workers that have servants in modern society.
- googthrowaway42 6y ago
  It's not dogma to suggest that people want to be compensated for building houses and growing food and won't do that for free unless a gun is put to their head.
  - jahaja 6y ago
    Of course it is. Assuming that the only other option to Capitalism is slavery is dogma.
    - googthrowaway42 6y ago
      You're using the word Capitalism as though it's representative of an ideology. "Capitalism" is a term created by Marxists to describe a system that allows people to freely exchange with one another without force. No one is going to grow your food or build you a house without compensation. That's why Marxism requires slavery (public slavery).
      - jahaja 6y ago
        You're clearly ignorant of left-wing theory. You actually think that the huge sympathy that socialism had and still have is based on people not understanding that it's actually slavery? A no compensation society? Come on.
        googthrowaway42 6y ago
        I mean there's a reason these sorts of programs always end with mass murder and suffering. Just because a lot of people believe something doesn't make it legitimate. Lots of people followed the Soviet and Nazi programs and it created human suffering on a level never seen before in human history. You really should read Human Action by Mises. It lays out on a philosophical level why all this stuff is fundamentally irrational and necessarily leads to mass human suffering.
        jahaja 6y ago
        Sigh. 99% of socialist want to expand democracy, not establish another dictatorship. Yet, people like yourself dogmatically focus on that other 1% that are authoritarian and paint every socialist as such. 71k people die every year in the US due to lack of healthcare. You need to open both eyes. I should read a book by the some libertarian god that unsurprisingly dismisses socialism, while your own knowledge about socialism is obviously paperthin? If it's so clear and obvious then you should be able to explain it in a paragraph or two?
        googthrowaway42 6y ago
        > 99% of socialist want to expand democracy Yes I know they do. This is a bad thing. The Founding Fathers were famously skeptical of democracy as were many, many thinkers and societies before them. And yes it's always democratic in the beginning but democracy is not a panacea (as the Founding Fathers understood) and quickly things devolve into despotism. Just because someone exists doesn't mean they should have a say in how a society is run. Existence is a pretty low bar compared to how developed and complex the structures of a well organized society are. > 71k people die every year in the US due to lack of healthcare. Millions are born each year due to abundance and millions more don't die for want of food and other essential services and that is because there's a functioning market clearing mechanism (price). Again I think you should read Human Action, even so you can just understand your 'enemy'.
        jahaja 6y ago

jahaja 6y ago

> By "indirectly coerced" you mean that they need food and shelter Yes, and more. > and they don't have slaves to grow their food and build their house for them? Is this the level you sink to as soon as Capitalist dogma is questioned? It's not the poor and workers that have servants in modern society.

googthrowaway42 6y ago
It's not dogma to suggest that people want to be compensated for building houses and growing food and won't do that for free unless a gun is put to their head.
- jahaja 6y ago
  Of course it is. Assuming that the only other option to Capitalism is slavery is dogma.
  - googthrowaway42 6y ago
    You're using the word Capitalism as though it's representative of an ideology. "Capitalism" is a term created by Marxists to describe a system that allows people to freely exchange with one another without force. No one is going to grow your food or build you a house without compensation. That's why Marxism requires slavery (public slavery).
    - jahaja 6y ago
      You're clearly ignorant of left-wing theory. You actually think that the huge sympathy that socialism had and still have is based on people not understanding that it's actually slavery? A no compensation society? Come on.
      - googthrowaway42 6y ago
        I mean there's a reason these sorts of programs always end with mass murder and suffering. Just because a lot of people believe something doesn't make it legitimate. Lots of people followed the Soviet and Nazi programs and it created human suffering on a level never seen before in human history. You really should read Human Action by Mises. It lays out on a philosophical level why all this stuff is fundamentally irrational and necessarily leads to mass human suffering.
        jahaja 6y ago
        Sigh. 99% of socialist want to expand democracy, not establish another dictatorship. Yet, people like yourself dogmatically focus on that other 1% that are authoritarian and paint every socialist as such. 71k people die every year in the US due to lack of healthcare. You need to open both eyes. I should read a book by the some libertarian god that unsurprisingly dismisses socialism, while your own knowledge about socialism is obviously paperthin? If it's so clear and obvious then you should be able to explain it in a paragraph or two?
        googthrowaway42 6y ago
        > 99% of socialist want to expand democracy Yes I know they do. This is a bad thing. The Founding Fathers were famously skeptical of democracy as were many, many thinkers and societies before them. And yes it's always democratic in the beginning but democracy is not a panacea (as the Founding Fathers understood) and quickly things devolve into despotism. Just because someone exists doesn't mean they should have a say in how a society is run. Existence is a pretty low bar compared to how developed and complex the structures of a well organized society are. > 71k people die every year in the US due to lack of healthcare. Millions are born each year due to abundance and millions more don't die for want of food and other essential services and that is because there's a functioning market clearing mechanism (price). Again I think you should read Human Action, even so you can just understand your 'enemy'.
        jahaja 6y ago