5 ms·

Tell HN: the word "Niger" (the country) seems blocked in Venmo memos

39 points by broahmed 6y ago

Was donating to a charitable cause in Niger and was able to use the word "Niger" in late April ("sadaqah" = charity in Arabic): https://imgur.com/a/yq1tWCq I no longer can. Two examples with the word "Niger" in it: https://imgur.com/a/pDunMej Reproduced on someone else's phone as well. I suspect it's because 1) of recent USA events and 2) "Niger" is one letter away from being the n-word. Contacted customer support but they didn't seem to understand I was trying to file a bug report. My goal isn't to get a customer service rep in trouble, so I won't bother posting the transcript unless people think it would be helpful. Ideas on how to inform Venmo of this? Wanted to create an Ask HN, but couldn't figure out a short enough question for the title character limit.

krrishd 6y ago
1 is actually the likely answer and IIRC has to do with regulations beyond Venmo (experienced something similar with a different country). They likely won't be able to help beyond suggesting not mentioning it in your description.
- 1f60c 6y ago
  Which regulations?
  - krrishd 6y ago
    they cite OFAC (Office of Foreign Assets Control) regulations [0], which is what I got as an answer as well when I experienced something similar. [0] https://www.inc.com/tess-townsend/venmo-reportedly-blocking-payments-that-use-the-word-persian.html https://www.inc.com/tess-townsend/venmo-reportedly-blocking-...
- broahmed 6y ago
  I have my doubts. The article you linked mentions payments being blocked, but in this case I'm getting an error message saying to use a different memo. The exact same "Please try another payment note" appears when using "Niger" or the n-word, so I suspect it's an attempt to block the n-word. I could be wrong though.
muzani 6y ago
It's sad when a whole country becomes a racial slur in some other country. But I guess for every person who has a valid reason to use the word, there are a thousand trolls trying to use the country name as a loophole. So I'm not surprised if customer service thinks you're filing a troll bug report.
- broahmed 6y ago
  That's what I was thinking: it's an overly aggressive attempt at blocking the n-word. Tried a payment with the word "Nigeria" in it and that went through successfully.
  - ShamelessC 6y ago
    Would it make sense to only censor the word if it's lower case? I mean I still see no reason why a transaction shouldn't go through even if it had the word spelled properly. Black people don't have a problem using it (deservedly so!) and I there are contexts where it is somewhat acceptable to use it if only to refer to (for instance) a racist character in a novel.
    - ShamelessC 6y ago
      Can't edit now, but I just want to say that I've reconsidered this point of view and now find it mildly racist and insensitive. Apologies if anyone was hurt by this.
- cheez 6y ago
  I believe the captions of one of the Netflix shows used the word "sniggered" where it otherwise used "snickered" and it was considered a signal by some.
codegeek 6y ago
Hit up their public accounts such as Twitter/facebook etc. They will probably respond more promptly there. Be nice about it and let them know the issue in a clear and coherent way.
- broahmed 6y ago
  That's a good idea. DMed @VenmoSupport on Twitter. Thank you.
droopyEyelids 6y ago
Venmo only allows payments to individuals (unless it's an approved venmo merchant), and only within the USA. You're violating their terms of service six ways to Sunday, donating to a charity in Niger. In your case, Venmo is The Wrong Tool for the Job.
- broahmed 6y ago
  Payment was to a US citizen who was doing some charitable work in Niger, and the individual isn't working on behalf of a charity. I appreciate the information though.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
gitgud 6y ago
This demonstrates why censorship via automation is so difficult. You basically need to understand a lot of the context around the use-case, in order to determine if the word should be allowed/disallowed. Even if you succeed, people evade these systems by developing slang and substituting special characters... Preventing hate speech from users is a very hard problem, with automation alone.
sneak 6y ago
If you use the word “Syria” in the memo the payment will also be blocked.
- broahmed 6y ago
  I tested that out. A memo of "Syria" causes the payment to go into review and doesn't block it outright. "Niger" in the memo results in the "Please try another payment note" error message shown in the screenshots.
totetsu 6y ago
Maybe try "N3r" in its place.
novok 6y ago
Stop using venmo & probably paypal. They uniquely block transactions based on stupid keyword basis. Also happens with 'persian food'. On top of that, venmo really wants to make your transactions public, while ones like square cash do not. I also don't think they do the stupid keyword thing too.
giardini 6y ago
While AI remains out of reach, AS (Artificial Stupidity) once again asserts it's omnipresence.

39 points by broahmed 6y ago

krrishd 6y ago

1 is actually the likely answer and IIRC has to do with regulations beyond Venmo (experienced something similar with a different country). They likely won't be able to help beyond suggesting not mentioning it in your description.

1f60c 6y ago
Which regulations?
- krrishd 6y ago
  they cite OFAC (Office of Foreign Assets Control) regulations [0], which is what I got as an answer as well when I experienced something similar. [0] https://www.inc.com/tess-townsend/venmo-reportedly-blocking-payments-that-use-the-word-persian.html https://www.inc.com/tess-townsend/venmo-reportedly-blocking-...
broahmed 6y ago
I have my doubts. The article you linked mentions payments being blocked, but in this case I'm getting an error message saying to use a different memo. The exact same "Please try another payment note" appears when using "Niger" or the n-word, so I suspect it's an attempt to block the n-word. I could be wrong though.

muzani 6y ago

It's sad when a whole country becomes a racial slur in some other country. But I guess for every person who has a valid reason to use the word, there are a thousand trolls trying to use the country name as a loophole. So I'm not surprised if customer service thinks you're filing a troll bug report.

broahmed 6y ago
That's what I was thinking: it's an overly aggressive attempt at blocking the n-word. Tried a payment with the word "Nigeria" in it and that went through successfully.
- ShamelessC 6y ago
  Would it make sense to only censor the word if it's lower case? I mean I still see no reason why a transaction shouldn't go through even if it had the word spelled properly. Black people don't have a problem using it (deservedly so!) and I there are contexts where it is somewhat acceptable to use it if only to refer to (for instance) a racist character in a novel.
  - ShamelessC 6y ago
    Can't edit now, but I just want to say that I've reconsidered this point of view and now find it mildly racist and insensitive. Apologies if anyone was hurt by this.
cheez 6y ago
I believe the captions of one of the Netflix shows used the word "sniggered" where it otherwise used "snickered" and it was considered a signal by some.

codegeek 6y ago

Hit up their public accounts such as Twitter/facebook etc. They will probably respond more promptly there. Be nice about it and let them know the issue in a clear and coherent way.

broahmed 6y ago
That's a good idea. DMed @VenmoSupport on Twitter. Thank you.

droopyEyelids 6y ago

Venmo only allows payments to individuals (unless it's an approved venmo merchant), and only within the USA. You're violating their terms of service six ways to Sunday, donating to a charity in Niger. In your case, Venmo is The Wrong Tool for the Job.

broahmed 6y ago
Payment was to a US citizen who was doing some charitable work in Niger, and the individual isn't working on behalf of a charity. I appreciate the information though.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

gitgud 6y ago

This demonstrates why censorship via automation is so difficult. You basically need to understand a lot of the context around the use-case, in order to determine if the word should be allowed/disallowed. Even if you succeed, people evade these systems by developing slang and substituting special characters... Preventing hate speech from users is a very hard problem, with automation alone.

sneak 6y ago

If you use the word “Syria” in the memo the payment will also be blocked.

broahmed 6y ago
I tested that out. A memo of "Syria" causes the payment to go into review and doesn't block it outright. "Niger" in the memo results in the "Please try another payment note" error message shown in the screenshots.

totetsu 6y ago

Maybe try "N3r" in its place.

novok 6y ago

Stop using venmo & probably paypal. They uniquely block transactions based on stupid keyword basis. Also happens with 'persian food'. On top of that, venmo really wants to make your transactions public, while ones like square cash do not. I also don't think they do the stupid keyword thing too.

giardini 6y ago

While AI remains out of reach, AS (Artificial Stupidity) once again asserts it's omnipresence.