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> I am amazed how often people blame this on the tax prep industry Should I not blame clothing companies for contracting out to sweat shops? We should absolute

> I am amazed how often people blame this on the tax prep industry Should I not blame clothing companies for contracting out to sweat shops? We should absolutely blame companies that are acting against the country's interests. Not all unethical behavior is illegal.

slg 6y ago
You are ignoring part of my post by selecting that quote out of context. I also said this: >Every other industry would do or is currently doing the exact same thing You are of course free to blame whoever you want, but if you call out the clothing industry for these behaviors while also working in the tech industry which is notoriously guilty of nearly identical problems with its international workforce, I would certainly call you hypocritical. Either way, I think a more appropriate path to actually fixing the problem isn't to shame the people with the bad behavior. It is to work to make that behavior illegal. This specific example is more difficult than the tax prep issue due to it involving other nations. However there are certainly trade regulations that could be put in place to disincentivize poor labor conditions for companies who wish to access the American market.
- cheriot 6y ago
  I specifically cited an industry that was forced to change by customer behavior (boycotts). Regardless of the change required here, it starts by driving awareness and making this behavior socially unacceptable. There won't be any political will to counter their lobbyists without it.
  - slg 6y ago
    >I specifically cited an industry that was forced to change by customer behavior Did they really change? [1] When you rely on public outrage as a motivator, the changes are only as permanent as the public is attentive and motivated. [1] - https://www.forbes.com/sites/siminamistreanu/2020/03/02/study-links-nike-adidas-and-apple-to-forced-uighur-labor/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/siminamistreanu/2020/03/02/stud...
    - cheriot 6y ago
      Do you think politicians will legislate permanent change without that outrage? If people saw sweatshops on TV and said, “well, they’re just trying to maximize profit” it will guarantee nothing changes. > Some brands including Adidas, Bosch and Panasonic told ASPI they had no direct contractual relationships with the suppliers indicated in the report, but no one could rule out a link further down their supply chain. Our society has come a long way on this issue. Of course more progress is needed and all of these companies know this connection is a liability.
ng12 6y ago
> Should I not blame clothing companies for contracting out to sweat shops No, but you should also not expect a large company to run itself out of business for ethical reasons. If Nike uses sweatshops Reebok's only options are to follow suit or go under. Making unethical behavior illegal or at least unprofitable is the only option in a free market society.
- cheriot 6y ago
  That starts with making their behavior socially unacceptable. It was customer boycotts that drove ethics in clothing manufacturing. We should not let Intuit off the hook because capitalism means pursuit of profits. Our society has to have higher principles than that.
  - ng12 6y ago
    What ethics? We didn't get rid of sweatshops we just moved them overseas.
    - cheriot 6y ago
      Are you really going to pretend that no progress has been made here? A lot of brands monitor their supply chains because they're worried about consumer reaction to unethical behavior.

slg 6y ago

You are ignoring part of my post by selecting that quote out of context. I also said this: >Every other industry would do or is currently doing the exact same thing You are of course free to blame whoever you want, but if you call out the clothing industry for these behaviors while also working in the tech industry which is notoriously guilty of nearly identical problems with its international workforce, I would certainly call you hypocritical. Either way, I think a more appropriate path to actually fixing the problem isn't to shame the people with the bad behavior. It is to work to make that behavior illegal. This specific example is more difficult than the tax prep issue due to it involving other nations. However there are certainly trade regulations that could be put in place to disincentivize poor labor conditions for companies who wish to access the American market.

cheriot 6y ago
I specifically cited an industry that was forced to change by customer behavior (boycotts). Regardless of the change required here, it starts by driving awareness and making this behavior socially unacceptable. There won't be any political will to counter their lobbyists without it.
- slg 6y ago
  >I specifically cited an industry that was forced to change by customer behavior Did they really change? [1] When you rely on public outrage as a motivator, the changes are only as permanent as the public is attentive and motivated. [1] - https://www.forbes.com/sites/siminamistreanu/2020/03/02/study-links-nike-adidas-and-apple-to-forced-uighur-labor/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/siminamistreanu/2020/03/02/stud...
  - cheriot 6y ago
    Do you think politicians will legislate permanent change without that outrage? If people saw sweatshops on TV and said, “well, they’re just trying to maximize profit” it will guarantee nothing changes. > Some brands including Adidas, Bosch and Panasonic told ASPI they had no direct contractual relationships with the suppliers indicated in the report, but no one could rule out a link further down their supply chain. Our society has come a long way on this issue. Of course more progress is needed and all of these companies know this connection is a liability.

ng12 6y ago

> Should I not blame clothing companies for contracting out to sweat shops No, but you should also not expect a large company to run itself out of business for ethical reasons. If Nike uses sweatshops Reebok's only options are to follow suit or go under. Making unethical behavior illegal or at least unprofitable is the only option in a free market society.

cheriot 6y ago
That starts with making their behavior socially unacceptable. It was customer boycotts that drove ethics in clothing manufacturing. We should not let Intuit off the hook because capitalism means pursuit of profits. Our society has to have higher principles than that.
- ng12 6y ago
  What ethics? We didn't get rid of sweatshops we just moved them overseas.
  - cheriot 6y ago
    Are you really going to pretend that no progress has been made here? A lot of brands monitor their supply chains because they're worried about consumer reaction to unethical behavior.