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Actually, most of the positions are being outsourced to contracting firms who are hiring the H1B workers. The actual cost per worker to the TVA is likely not si

Actually, most of the positions are being outsourced to contracting firms who are hiring the H1B workers. The actual cost per worker to the TVA is likely not significantly different, however, the workers can lose their jobs at any time, and the contracting firm makes bank. https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/business/aroundregion/story/2020/jun/16/protests-planned-against-tva-outsourcing-jobs/525419/ https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/business/aroundregion/st...

hinkley 6y ago
One of the dangers of getting old is that it's essentially a trope that your sense of a fair price often lags behind increasing costs. The constant pressure toward replacing manufactured goods (food included) with cheaper alternatives isn't just about increasing margins, it's also about sticker shock ratcheting up among your customers. I don't know about recently, but tech salaries were growing much faster than inflation for a long time. I suspect that in some cases those consultancy negotiators were sitting in meetings with customers who didn't understand why they had to pay 25% more to renew a largely unmodified contract. and/or why the senior people are being replaced. Because you can't afford those people anymore, pal. So for the same dollar you are probably getting more COTS/OSS software and talent that is easier to exploit (young, H1-B, or both). I hesitate to think what happens in 2030 when whole teams are already the most vulnerable developers and it's time to renegotiate contracts again.
whoisjuan 6y ago
Ok. I get that. But then again he is punishing them for hiring sub-contractors then. What's the rationale here? I don't understand how any government agency can operate without subcontracting. Why would anyone go for the most expensive subcontractor on the basis that they don't employ H1Bs? I don't think anyone is using that criteria. They should explicitly write rules for this if that's what they want to enforce. Either way, it seems like a very petty and selectively populist political move. "Look I fired this fucker who wasn't prioritizing American workers".... That dude hardly knew about that. He was looking at the price tag, not the LCAs of their sub-contractors.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  > But then again he is punishing them for hiring sub-contractors then. What's the rationale here? I don't understand how any government agency can operate without subcontracting. Why would anyone go for the most expensive subcontractor on the basis that they don't employ H1Bs? I don't think anyone is using that criteria. I would expect that you would be required to meet federal government labor regulations and standards (including H1B visa requirements), even when using subcontractors, when you are a federally chartered corporation or are doing business with the federal government. https://www.natlawreview.com/article/guide-to-labor-and-employment-obligations-federal-contractors https://www.natlawreview.com/article/guide-to-labor-and-empl... (A Guide to Labor and Employment Obligations for Federal Contractors) > IX. Subcontracting: Contractors must recognize that their obligations under these laws and executive orders also apply to their subcontractors. Many CBAs provide that the agreement applies to any subcontractor used by the contractor to perform work done by covered employees, and the contractor is responsible for the subcontractor’s failure to comply with the terms of the CBA. (snipped non-relevant union language for brevity, available in link above) EDIT: @belltaco: You're violating the law if you replace US workers with H1Bs [1] [2]. This is supposedly what TVA contractors have done [3] [4] [5]. [1] https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/11/08/h-1b-spouses-h-4-work-authorization-means-more-job-competition-for-u-s-workers-judges/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/11/08/h-1b-spouses-h-4-work... [2] https://www.uscis.gov/report-fraud/combating-fraud-and-abuse-in-the-h-1b-visa-program https://www.uscis.gov/report-fraud/combating-fraud-and-abuse... [3] https://usagag.com/tennessee-valley-authority-firing-american-workers-replacing-with-cheaper-h1b-labor/ https://usagag.com/tennessee-valley-authority-firing-america... [4] https://whnt.com/news/huntsville/protesters-in-huntsville-rally-against-tva-lay-offs/ https://whnt.com/news/huntsville/protesters-in-huntsville-ra... [5] https://youtu.be/nlXUooEvd4o https://youtu.be/nlXUooEvd4o
  - belltaco 6y ago
    Did TVA or their subcontractors violate any of those? Doesn't look like it.
- 6y ago

hinkley 6y ago

One of the dangers of getting old is that it's essentially a trope that your sense of a fair price often lags behind increasing costs. The constant pressure toward replacing manufactured goods (food included) with cheaper alternatives isn't just about increasing margins, it's also about sticker shock ratcheting up among your customers. I don't know about recently, but tech salaries were growing much faster than inflation for a long time. I suspect that in some cases those consultancy negotiators were sitting in meetings with customers who didn't understand why they had to pay 25% more to renew a largely unmodified contract. and/or why the senior people are being replaced. Because you can't afford those people anymore, pal. So for the same dollar you are probably getting more COTS/OSS software and talent that is easier to exploit (young, H1-B, or both). I hesitate to think what happens in 2030 when whole teams are already the most vulnerable developers and it's time to renegotiate contracts again.

whoisjuan 6y ago

Ok. I get that. But then again he is punishing them for hiring sub-contractors then. What's the rationale here? I don't understand how any government agency can operate without subcontracting. Why would anyone go for the most expensive subcontractor on the basis that they don't employ H1Bs? I don't think anyone is using that criteria. They should explicitly write rules for this if that's what they want to enforce. Either way, it seems like a very petty and selectively populist political move. "Look I fired this fucker who wasn't prioritizing American workers".... That dude hardly knew about that. He was looking at the price tag, not the LCAs of their sub-contractors.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
toomuchtodo 6y ago
> But then again he is punishing them for hiring sub-contractors then. What's the rationale here? I don't understand how any government agency can operate without subcontracting. Why would anyone go for the most expensive subcontractor on the basis that they don't employ H1Bs? I don't think anyone is using that criteria. I would expect that you would be required to meet federal government labor regulations and standards (including H1B visa requirements), even when using subcontractors, when you are a federally chartered corporation or are doing business with the federal government. https://www.natlawreview.com/article/guide-to-labor-and-employment-obligations-federal-contractors https://www.natlawreview.com/article/guide-to-labor-and-empl... (A Guide to Labor and Employment Obligations for Federal Contractors) > IX. Subcontracting: Contractors must recognize that their obligations under these laws and executive orders also apply to their subcontractors. Many CBAs provide that the agreement applies to any subcontractor used by the contractor to perform work done by covered employees, and the contractor is responsible for the subcontractor’s failure to comply with the terms of the CBA. (snipped non-relevant union language for brevity, available in link above) EDIT: @belltaco: You're violating the law if you replace US workers with H1Bs [1] [2]. This is supposedly what TVA contractors have done [3] [4] [5]. [1] https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/11/08/h-1b-spouses-h-4-work-authorization-means-more-job-competition-for-u-s-workers-judges/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/11/08/h-1b-spouses-h-4-work... [2] https://www.uscis.gov/report-fraud/combating-fraud-and-abuse-in-the-h-1b-visa-program https://www.uscis.gov/report-fraud/combating-fraud-and-abuse... [3] https://usagag.com/tennessee-valley-authority-firing-american-workers-replacing-with-cheaper-h1b-labor/ https://usagag.com/tennessee-valley-authority-firing-america... [4] https://whnt.com/news/huntsville/protesters-in-huntsville-rally-against-tva-lay-offs/ https://whnt.com/news/huntsville/protesters-in-huntsville-ra... [5] https://youtu.be/nlXUooEvd4o https://youtu.be/nlXUooEvd4o
- belltaco 6y ago
  Did TVA or their subcontractors violate any of those? Doesn't look like it.
6y ago