4 ms·

Well, that was the easy part. Where's the funding going to come from to pay domestic workers?

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
If the TVA is anything like the state level government I'm familiar with the answer is likely "the former salaries of politically appointed middle managers who can be sacked now that the CEO is gone and who's roles will not be back-filled". Depending on the union situation (union roles vs non-union job roles) that might not be possible though.
- gerbal 6y ago
  The TVA is government owned, but self funded. Apparently it's turned a healthy profit since the 70s.
  - pstuart 6y ago
    And there we land on the real reason for this: privatizing the TVA. The US jobs thing is just an excuse to take control. Edit: for the downvoters -- a citation to back up my assertion: https://www.publicpower.org/periodical/article/president-trump-renews-effort-sell-grid-assets-pmas-tva https://www.publicpower.org/periodical/article/president-tru...
zaroth 6y ago
It’s illegal to pay H1Bs less than the prevailing wage.
- davidf18 6y ago
  H1-B is only for jobs where there are no qualified Americans to fill the job, for example, a PhD + post-doc physicist in condensed matter physics who has a masters in CS.
- phnofive 6y ago
  Loopholes aside, what possible motivation could an employer have for bringing in an H1B than lower cost? The H1B worker is beholden to the employer and the increased supply of labor would necessarily decrease scarcity of that skill.
  - amf12 6y ago
    > what possible motivation could an employer have for bringing in an H1B than lower cost Skills for one. The way H1B was really meant to be used. I am not arguing TVA did this. But there ARE reasons to hire H1B workers other than cost. Case in point Google, Microsoft, Amazon, etc.
    - zaroth 6y ago
      This is exactly the stated purpose--and indeed the legal requirement--of H1B visas, to gain access to uniquely skilled workers that are not available through the local workforce. It's supposed to be an essentially merit-based path to immigration, and if true, that would make it exactly the kind of program that Trump should 100% support. To the extent that H1B accomplishes this objective of highly skilled labor at prevailing market wages, I think it's a useful program that has a place in the overall immigration system. From a macroeconomic view, even when limited to bringing in skilled labor to fulfill a specific market shortage, this will still depress the prevailing wage in that market, which theoretically prevents the market from correcting when rising wages induce increased local supply. Fundamentally something is broken with the wage market when real wages have not grown in decades. Partially this is a problem with the measurement not correctly accounting for significantly increased cost of [healthcare] benefits covered by the employer share. But I believe even when accounting for the full employer-side cost of wages, this number has not grown as expected, and low-wage work visas are part of the problem.
- learc83 6y ago
  It is, but it's very easy to game. Hire someone for QA, then make them work as a software engineer etc...
commandlinefan 6y ago
> to pay domestic workers Wait, so they were underpaying the H1B workers the way they're explicitly prohibited by law from doing?
- dpoochieni 6y ago
  This is easily avoided. Plenty of loopholes, hard to prove and enforce
- cosmie 6y ago
  You can see the salaries of the H1B workers here[1] (at least their initial salaries). Electrical engineering related hires had salaries between $47k - $55k. Looking at other H1B salary data for those years (2001 - 2003)[2], and the TVA salaries seem on par with other H1B hires(they're neither the lowest, nor the highest). Chattanooga where all these hires were at also has a fairly low cost of living, so $55k sounds like a decent wage for the area. The more recent hires were all managerial level, and range from $90k - $130k. Not sure how competitive those were with domestic hires at the time (last H1B hire was in 2008), but overall they're fairly high salaries. And these were all in Nashville, where that wage is enough to support a family living in the well-to-do suburbs of the area. [1] https://h1bsalary.online/index.php?searchtext=TENNESSEE+VALLEY+AUTHORITY&year=&minsalary=&state=&worksite_city=&job_title= https://h1bsalary.online/index.php?searchtext=TENNESSEE+VALL... [2] https://h1bsalary.online/index.php?searchtext=ELECTRICAL+ENGINEER&year=2001&minsalary=&state=&worksite_city=&job_title= https://h1bsalary.online/index.php?searchtext=ELECTRICAL+ENG...

If the TVA is anything like the state level government I'm familiar with the answer is likely "the former salaries of politically appointed middle managers who can be sacked now that the CEO is gone and who's roles will not be back-filled". Depending on the union situation (union roles vs non-union job roles) that might not be possible though.

gerbal 6y ago
The TVA is government owned, but self funded. Apparently it's turned a healthy profit since the 70s.
- pstuart 6y ago
  And there we land on the real reason for this: privatizing the TVA. The US jobs thing is just an excuse to take control. Edit: for the downvoters -- a citation to back up my assertion: https://www.publicpower.org/periodical/article/president-trump-renews-effort-sell-grid-assets-pmas-tva https://www.publicpower.org/periodical/article/president-tru...

zaroth 6y ago

It’s illegal to pay H1Bs less than the prevailing wage.

davidf18 6y ago
H1-B is only for jobs where there are no qualified Americans to fill the job, for example, a PhD + post-doc physicist in condensed matter physics who has a masters in CS.
phnofive 6y ago
Loopholes aside, what possible motivation could an employer have for bringing in an H1B than lower cost? The H1B worker is beholden to the employer and the increased supply of labor would necessarily decrease scarcity of that skill.
- amf12 6y ago
  > what possible motivation could an employer have for bringing in an H1B than lower cost Skills for one. The way H1B was really meant to be used. I am not arguing TVA did this. But there ARE reasons to hire H1B workers other than cost. Case in point Google, Microsoft, Amazon, etc.
  - zaroth 6y ago
    This is exactly the stated purpose--and indeed the legal requirement--of H1B visas, to gain access to uniquely skilled workers that are not available through the local workforce. It's supposed to be an essentially merit-based path to immigration, and if true, that would make it exactly the kind of program that Trump should 100% support. To the extent that H1B accomplishes this objective of highly skilled labor at prevailing market wages, I think it's a useful program that has a place in the overall immigration system. From a macroeconomic view, even when limited to bringing in skilled labor to fulfill a specific market shortage, this will still depress the prevailing wage in that market, which theoretically prevents the market from correcting when rising wages induce increased local supply. Fundamentally something is broken with the wage market when real wages have not grown in decades. Partially this is a problem with the measurement not correctly accounting for significantly increased cost of [healthcare] benefits covered by the employer share. But I believe even when accounting for the full employer-side cost of wages, this number has not grown as expected, and low-wage work visas are part of the problem.
learc83 6y ago
It is, but it's very easy to game. Hire someone for QA, then make them work as a software engineer etc...

commandlinefan 6y ago

> to pay domestic workers Wait, so they were underpaying the H1B workers the way they're explicitly prohibited by law from doing?

dpoochieni 6y ago
This is easily avoided. Plenty of loopholes, hard to prove and enforce
cosmie 6y ago
You can see the salaries of the H1B workers here[1] (at least their initial salaries). Electrical engineering related hires had salaries between $47k - $55k. Looking at other H1B salary data for those years (2001 - 2003)[2], and the TVA salaries seem on par with other H1B hires(they're neither the lowest, nor the highest). Chattanooga where all these hires were at also has a fairly low cost of living, so $55k sounds like a decent wage for the area. The more recent hires were all managerial level, and range from $90k - $130k. Not sure how competitive those were with domestic hires at the time (last H1B hire was in 2008), but overall they're fairly high salaries. And these were all in Nashville, where that wage is enough to support a family living in the well-to-do suburbs of the area. [1] https://h1bsalary.online/index.php?searchtext=TENNESSEE+VALLEY+AUTHORITY&year=&minsalary=&state=&worksite_city=&job_title= https://h1bsalary.online/index.php?searchtext=TENNESSEE+VALL... [2] https://h1bsalary.online/index.php?searchtext=ELECTRICAL+ENGINEER&year=2001&minsalary=&state=&worksite_city=&job_title= https://h1bsalary.online/index.php?searchtext=ELECTRICAL+ENG...