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We have a friend who is an ER nurse at a hospital on the Central Valley. She had a nasty interaction while buying takeout at a bar in Winters. Another patron sa

• Teknoman117 6y ago
  I got yelled at for wearing a mask while getting the mail at my apartment. Said I shouldn't scare her kids in their home. (apparently this person considered anywhere in the apartment complex to be "home")
• sevencolors 6y ago
  I'm still having a hard time understanding the aggression towards people wearing masks?! I sorta "get" why some people don't want to. But why get angry at folks minding their business. Are they just projecting their fears of being wrong?
  • Teknoman117 6y ago
    > Are they just projecting their fears of being wrong? I'd believe this answer if someone told me :). It's the same thing that fuels all of the fanboi-ism in tech. The "I'm insecure about my choice so I need to attack all of the other choices to feel better" behavior.
  • kevingadd 6y ago
    They believe the virus and masks are part of a conspiracy to deprive them of their freedom (???), so by wearing a mask you're participating in it, somehow. Not that bizarre compared to the (increasingly widespread) conspiracy theories about child trafficking in imaginary tunnels and basements that led at least one guy to storm a restaurant with a rifle. We've also had incidents of utility workers being attacked by people who think 5G towers are being used to spread the (imaginary????) coronavirus, so that's a thing.
    • disease 6y ago
      What are the psychological principles that drive people to believe in absolutely insane things that can easily be disproven? Why does this even happen? What do these people get from having these beliefs? Why do they do vehemently defend them to the point of fanaticism? These aren't hypothetical questions. I genuinely do not understand these people or their behavior on any level and I never see any attempt at an explanation anywhere - here, social media, mainstream media, documentaries - you name it.
      • ra7 6y ago
        I'm no expert, but my guess is lack of education combined with extreme political divide in the country. From what I've observed, one side thinks whatever the "other side" believes in must be wrong and harmful, so they are obligated to take a contrarian view and are willing to die on that hill.
      • cwkoss 6y ago
        A large portion of pizzagate was focused on Epstein... and arguably was responsible for him finally being arrested. I think the key for conspiracy theories is that they find a kernel of truth that powerful people don't readily admit, and then fill in the information gaps with their own narrative.
      • mgh2 6y ago
        Distrust in authorities is understandable by the less educated, taking into account how the elite lies and takes advantage of the population. The problem comes from the top: their irresponsible and unethical practices led to today's divided country. t.ly/Fb8F
        • roel_v 6y ago
          I'm not sure it's (only) an educated vs uneducated thing. I have a friend who is an anesthesiologist who is a (somewhat) anti-vaxxer, and university professor friends (yes, more than one) who are (again, somewhat) conspiracy theorists. Not chemtrail level, but 'yeah but how do we know MH17 wasn't a false flag operation by the Americans' level. (to me, that's already nutjob territory; for others, that's 'healthy scepticism'). In these people, I theorize it's a badge of honor for them to be contrarian, and to be 'independent thinkers'. Which, in the abstract, is a good thing I guess - but where is the line? It's all phrased in a way that there is no 'proof' possible, because there is always an extra layer of 'but that's just what THEY want you to think!'. I was at a (responsibly socially distanced, thank you) bbq yesterday where several highly intelligent, respected professionals were spouting... let's say... things with dubious intellectual justification. But hey, with some in that company being literally antifa t-shirt wearing activists, at least it's entertaining!
  • rtx 6y ago
    Or you know sometimes things get exaggerated. If you go by internet you would think half the world believes in flat earth.
    • ra7 6y ago
      A disturbing amount of people believe in flat earth and you are only aware of it because of the internet. Half the world doesn't have to believe in it for it to be alarming.
    • rsynnott 6y ago
      Surprisingly large numbers of people do believe in absolutely bizarre things. While half of people don't think the earth's flat, some polls show it to be in double digits. And polls often show up to 20-30% for the moon landings having been faked. In polling a couple of years ago, only 25%(!!!) of US Republicans believed that Obama was born in the US (though this was a significant increase from polls taken at the start of last decade, and might indicate a degree of value signaling). We're hearing about this now because conspiracy theories about covid are _dangerous_ in a way that belief that the earth is flat are largely not. Another worrying one potentially coming up; a lot of people believe various conspiracy theories about vaccines, and this may become a serious issue if a viable covid vaccine becomes available.
  • rwcarlsen 6y ago
    My anecdotal experience from discussing these issues with people of many demographics, political pursuations, etc. is that there is a great deal of animosity from people that were more heavily hit by the lockdowns, rules, etc. imposed by the goverment. And people wearing masks is a "signal" that that person is likely on the side that was driving the lockdowns, restrictions, etc. to occur. This includes: people that have lost their jobs, people that have young kids (in schools that were closed), etc.
    • pythonslayer 6y ago
      Yes. The Cold War and the resulting pro-business/anti-government ethos that pervades America creates a situation in which people blame each other for everything that goes wrong instead of blaming their leaders or the ruling class. When they lose their job, they don’t consider that in most countries they would have either not lost their job or they would have began receiving a healthy sustenance from the government.
    • an_opabinia 6y ago
      As a form of protest, not wearing masks is extremely effective. Here we are talking about it. Also, one man's "animosity" is another's protest.
    • aerostable_slug 6y ago
      My anecdotal experience is in line with yours. Some areas that were hit hard by lockdowns also had very few cases, so people were left not knowing anyone who knew anyone who had contracted COVID-19. Obviously this does not justify boorish behavior, but I can certainly empathize with their sentiments.
    • sevencolors 6y ago
      Yeah I can sorta see that for some people. There's lots of stress happening at various levels. Lack of uncertainty makes us act out in harsh ways. And it's a easy target with a strong signal
  • Digory 6y ago
    Any precautionary control of physical appearance and conduct gets a reaction in America. If a school demands a dress code, people go nuts. It's immediately suspected to be unfair, overly broad, racist, sexist, and ableist, probably invented by perverts who think too much about adolescent sexuality. If you tell them the dress code is a courtesy to others, kids and parents will get in your face and protest it. [0] Masks solve a (big) problem in some (limited) situations -- mostly close contact. But the rules are written to be over-inclusive and inconsistent. It's a protection against the chance you're infected and don't know it. Some municipalities are demanding them outdoors, in sparsely-populated areas, and indoors with your family. You don't get to present your body how you want, and your communication is stifled. Masks are a dress code for the face. I wear them. But some people are going to get angry. [0] https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/9/13/17847542/students-waging-war-sexist-racist-school-dress-codes https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/9/13/17847542/students-wa...
    • dTal 6y ago
      I think it stretches the meaning of "dress code" to breaking point when the required item is functional. Are seatbelts a "dress code"? Open carry weapons? But I think you hit the mark closer with that little hedge of "and conduct", at the beginning. This isn't about dress codes per se, it's about rules - many Americans simply hate rules and reflexively rebel against them. Any suggestion that one should make a sacrifice for the collective good is invariably met, from some quarters, with a kind of moral outrage - often accompanied with self-righteous rhetoric giving frequent mention to "freedom" and "liberty", and often "the Constitution" and "founding fathers" as well. The inability to make collective sacrifice is a huge social weakness that interferes with the formation of a civil society, and in my opinion it is, more than anything else, the reason America is handling the pandemic so poorly - not just in terms of the acute response, but also the very structure of society. For example, due to overwhelming distaste for the idea of paying to fix other people's problems even if it's manifestly better for society as a whole, there's no socialized healthcare, or functioning social safety net - both of which cause people in low-paying service jobs to drag themselves to work while fighting COVID-19.
      • Digory 6y ago
  • klipt 6y ago
    https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/12/17/the-toxoplasma-of-rage/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/12/17/the-toxoplasma-of-rage... > But in the more general case, people can use moral decisions to signal how moral they are. In this case, they choose a disastrous decision based on some moral principle. The more suffering and destruction they support, and the more obscure a principle it is, the more obviously it shows their commitment to following their moral principles absolutely. For example, Immanuel Kant claims that if an axe murderer asks you where your best friend is, obviously intending to murder her when he finds her, you should tell the axe murderer the full truth, because lying is wrong. This is effective at showing how moral a person you are – no one would ever doubt your commitment to honesty after that – but it’s sure not a very good result for your friend. Letting people die of disease shows their commitment to "freedom" from ... masks and scientists.
    • s1artibartfast 6y ago
      I think this is a big part of it. In my experience, almost everyone who doesn't wear masks are reacting to compulsory action, and filling in justifications afterwards. Some people are just inherently reactive to threats, and respond better to request. A governmental recommendation and public awareness campaign would likely be more effective with these people than a law.
      • klipt 6y ago
        Yes like the recommended approach with teenagers isn't to say "don't do drugs because I say so", but "drug sellers are trying to manipulate you into giving them money by making you addicted". You have to use their natural rebelliousness to your advantage.
    • mnm1 6y ago
      Kant would say the only way to be free in this situation is to wear a mask and fulfill your moral duty to yourself and others. But this kind of thinking is way above the heads of the idiots currently not wearing masks. I doubt they even understand the meaning of "moral" and "duty" individually, let alone when used as a phrase. People are incredibly stupid by default. The ones wearing masks never changed their default settings.
  • mnm1 6y ago
    When stupid people feel their stupid ideas are challenged, some will get violent. Why? Because they're fucking stupid. They don't have the capability of self control, let alone intelligence to know when to use it. The level of stupidity to not wear a mask in a pandemic is so great that it's really the dumbest of the dumb we are talking about here. The idiots' idiots. These people are nothing more than children in adult bodies. Having no self control and resorting to violence because someone else does something that doesn't in any way affect you is evidence of their stunted minds and inability to function at even the most basic adult human levels.
• jborichevskiy 6y ago
  Can confirm. Visited an Airbnb in the mountains near Redding and was met with "oh we don't wear masks here". Quite the surprise.