7 ms·

There seem to be some mixing of hierarchies and authority here, but even anarchists aren't as dogmatically opposed to all kinds of authority that you seem to im

by jahaja 6y ago

There seem to be some mixing of hierarchies and authority here, but even anarchists aren't as dogmatically opposed to all kinds of authority that you seem to imply? "Does it follow that I reject all authority? Perish the thought. In the matter of boots, I defer to the authority of the bootmaker; concerning houses, canals, or railroads, I consult the architect or the engineer For such special knowledge I apply to such a "savant." But I allow neither the bootmaker nor the architect nor the "savant" to impose his authority on me. I listen to them freely and with all the respect merited by their intelligence, their character, their knowledge, reserving always my incontestable right of criticism and censure." Mikhail Bakunin

googthrowaway42 6y ago
I was talking about Marxism and other revolutionary movements that spring from the French Revolution. VP and CTO are actual titles that confer authority. What Bakunin is describing are hierarchies of competence in a particular art (techne) but what would he say about parent-child relationships? I had never heard of Bakunin until now. I'm not an expert on the schools of anarchist thought by any measure so I won't pretend to really be able to hold a discussion you want to get into analysis of various schools of anarchist thought.
- jahaja 6y ago
  > VP and CTO are actual titles that confer authority. Those are considered illegitimate since they are undemocratic. A top-down vanguard too. > but what would he say about parent-child relationships? The same competence argument applies to child rearing.
  - googthrowaway42 6y ago
    > Those are considered illegitimate since they are undemocratic. But these are voluntary structures? That's kind of the beauty of the free market. You have these little monarchal structures that go out and create something in the world. If people want to join they can. If and when these structures become too dysfunctional they go away due to market forces.
    - jahaja 6y ago
      > But these are voluntary structures? They're not. No free person would voluntary accept all kinds of shit jobs that's out there unless indirectly coerced.
      - googthrowaway42 6y ago
        By "indirectly coerced" you mean that they need food and shelter and they don't have slaves to grow their food and build their house for them?
        jahaja 6y ago
        > By "indirectly coerced" you mean that they need food and shelter Yes, and more. > and they don't have slaves to grow their food and build their house for them? Is this the level you sink to as soon as Capitalist dogma is questioned? It's not the poor and workers that have servants in modern society.
        googthrowaway42 6y ago
        It's not dogma to suggest that people want to be compensated for building houses and growing food and won't do that for free unless a gun is put to their head.
        jahaja 6y ago
        Of course it is. Assuming that the only other option to Capitalism is slavery is dogma.
        googthrowaway42 6y ago
        You're using the word Capitalism as though it's representative of an ideology. "Capitalism" is a term created by Marxists to describe a system that allows people to freely exchange with one another without force. No one is going to grow your food or build you a house without compensation. That's why Marxism requires slavery (public slavery).

by jahaja 6y ago

googthrowaway42 6y ago

I was talking about Marxism and other revolutionary movements that spring from the French Revolution. VP and CTO are actual titles that confer authority. What Bakunin is describing are hierarchies of competence in a particular art (techne) but what would he say about parent-child relationships? I had never heard of Bakunin until now. I'm not an expert on the schools of anarchist thought by any measure so I won't pretend to really be able to hold a discussion you want to get into analysis of various schools of anarchist thought.

jahaja 6y ago
> VP and CTO are actual titles that confer authority. Those are considered illegitimate since they are undemocratic. A top-down vanguard too. > but what would he say about parent-child relationships? The same competence argument applies to child rearing.
- googthrowaway42 6y ago
  > Those are considered illegitimate since they are undemocratic. But these are voluntary structures? That's kind of the beauty of the free market. You have these little monarchal structures that go out and create something in the world. If people want to join they can. If and when these structures become too dysfunctional they go away due to market forces.
  - jahaja 6y ago
    > But these are voluntary structures? They're not. No free person would voluntary accept all kinds of shit jobs that's out there unless indirectly coerced.
    - googthrowaway42 6y ago
      By "indirectly coerced" you mean that they need food and shelter and they don't have slaves to grow their food and build their house for them?
      - jahaja 6y ago
        > By "indirectly coerced" you mean that they need food and shelter Yes, and more. > and they don't have slaves to grow their food and build their house for them? Is this the level you sink to as soon as Capitalist dogma is questioned? It's not the poor and workers that have servants in modern society.
        googthrowaway42 6y ago
        It's not dogma to suggest that people want to be compensated for building houses and growing food and won't do that for free unless a gun is put to their head.
        jahaja 6y ago
        Of course it is. Assuming that the only other option to Capitalism is slavery is dogma.
        googthrowaway42 6y ago
        You're using the word Capitalism as though it's representative of an ideology. "Capitalism" is a term created by Marxists to describe a system that allows people to freely exchange with one another without force. No one is going to grow your food or build you a house without compensation. That's why Marxism requires slavery (public slavery).