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Anecdote time: I live in San Francisco, almost everyone wears a mask here. My friend just got back from a road trip through the central valley, he said nobody t

Anecdote time: I live in San Francisco, almost everyone wears a mask here. My friend just got back from a road trip through the central valley, he said nobody there was wearing masks and a random stranger called him a coward (in more colorful language) for wearing one while at a gas station. His opinion was that the central valley is going to be hit hard.

ExThermoGuy 6y ago
If the "colorful" language was short for "pusillanimous", then it wasn't colorful at all. Just brief. ;)
blaser-waffle 6y ago
To paraphrase Hosea 8:7 -- so the wind, reap the whirlwind. They'll get theirs soon enough.
- DerekL 6y ago
  By the way, it's sow. So and sow are homophones.
torpfactory 6y ago
We have a friend who is an ER nurse at a hospital on the Central Valley. She had a nasty interaction while buying takeout at a bar in Winters. Another patron said “we don’t need any mask wearing cowards in here” and then proceeded to get physically confrontational until her friend said “are you really going to beat up two nurses over wearing masks” and then he backed off. What a world we live in.
- Teknoman117 6y ago
  I got yelled at for wearing a mask while getting the mail at my apartment. Said I shouldn't scare her kids in their home. (apparently this person considered anywhere in the apartment complex to be "home")
- sevencolors 6y ago
  I'm still having a hard time understanding the aggression towards people wearing masks?! I sorta "get" why some people don't want to. But why get angry at folks minding their business. Are they just projecting their fears of being wrong?
  - Teknoman117 6y ago
    > Are they just projecting their fears of being wrong? I'd believe this answer if someone told me :). It's the same thing that fuels all of the fanboi-ism in tech. The "I'm insecure about my choice so I need to attack all of the other choices to feel better" behavior.
  - kevingadd 6y ago
    They believe the virus and masks are part of a conspiracy to deprive them of their freedom (???), so by wearing a mask you're participating in it, somehow. Not that bizarre compared to the (increasingly widespread) conspiracy theories about child trafficking in imaginary tunnels and basements that led at least one guy to storm a restaurant with a rifle. We've also had incidents of utility workers being attacked by people who think 5G towers are being used to spread the (imaginary????) coronavirus, so that's a thing.
    - disease 6y ago
      What are the psychological principles that drive people to believe in absolutely insane things that can easily be disproven? Why does this even happen? What do these people get from having these beliefs? Why do they do vehemently defend them to the point of fanaticism? These aren't hypothetical questions. I genuinely do not understand these people or their behavior on any level and I never see any attempt at an explanation anywhere - here, social media, mainstream media, documentaries - you name it.
      - ra7 6y ago
        I'm no expert, but my guess is lack of education combined with extreme political divide in the country. From what I've observed, one side thinks whatever the "other side" believes in must be wrong and harmful, so they are obligated to take a contrarian view and are willing to die on that hill.
- jborichevskiy 6y ago
  Can confirm. Visited an Airbnb in the mountains near Redding and was met with "oh we don't wear masks here". Quite the surprise.
Teknoman117 6y ago
I'm living in Central Valley right now and I can confirm very few people are wearing masks. Highly considering using grocery delivery now considering that the hospitals are now full in my local county. Pretty much figuring that if I were to catch it and need hospitalization I'm as good as dead here.
- fspeech 6y ago
  When Imperial county hospitals overflowed, patients were transferred to other counties. Stay safe but also know you should still seek care if you need it.
danans 6y ago
When things get bad enough, this is like people getting caught in a stampede, but one driven by tribal conspiracy theories instead of panic. Your risk ultimately becomes a function of the most extreme behavior (i.e. "Coronavirus house parties") of those around you. These localized "infection events" are often the source of larger regional outbreaks. This is what has just happened in Melbourne, where private security services were apparently lax in their monitoring of people in COVID19 quarantine hotels, allowing it to spread to the community [1] I'm very worried about friends and family in the Central Valley who have complicating health conditions. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ7qi-Gka4g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ7qi-Gka4g
jtbayly 6y ago
I don't get angry at people wearing masks. I comply with the local mask mandates where I live. Having said that, I have a question. Why does anybody think that masks actually help? I've basically been under the impression that masks are health theater that allows people to go on with life without being scared, though it doesn't actually do much of anything. Apparently I'm in the minority in thinking that. But I put on a surgical mask, twist the side ear loop so that air comes out the side instead of the top (right at my eyes), and I ask myself what in the world it is supposed to be accomplishing. It's not like people are wearing properly fitted N95 masks, and even then, the way people are talking about micro droplets seems like they might get through just fine.
- webkike 6y ago
  There are studies pointing to their efficacy https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191274/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191274/
  - jtbayly 6y ago
    I've read a fair bit now, and I'm left with... questions. I haven't read it all yet, but nothing I've seen so far indicates that masks actually accomplish anything directly. From the summary of results: "Medical masks were not effective, and cloth masks even less effective." I'm assuming that is referring to in hospital settings, but still... somehow they magically they work "in the community." Has anybody proposed or tested a reason for why they would work in one setting but not the other? I saw no mention of controlling for how much time the participants (college students) spent with other people. Can we truly assume that wearing a mask had no other effect on the behavior of young people who are incredibly image-conscious and facing intense peer pressure to fit in? If I had to guess, the only thing they proved is that college students asked to wear masks will stay alone in their rooms more often than those not asked to wear masks. Of course, indirect benefits are still benefits. It is possible that something like this could happen when masks are mandated in public today. Meaning, mask mandates lead to people staying home more, which is obviously going to be effective. However, see next paragraph. Another problem I saw immediately is that they were required to wear masks for long periods when in their dwelling, but not required outside of their dwelling. This, of course, is the opposite of what we are doing. What is the result of inverting the study practices? They were studies on the flu. Can we assume the same effect on Coronaviruses? From one study... "Generalizability limited to similar settings and age groups." Ok... so we're ignoring the paper's warnings about what we can learn from it? In one study they were able to measure a decrease in flu-like-illnesses(ILI) with mask use, but it wasn't statistically significant, and it was only in the second half of the study (weeks 4-6). The summary ends with: "Neither face mask use and hand hygiene nor face mask use alone was associated with a significant reduction in the rate of ILI cumulatively." It then proceeds in the next sentence (the conclusion summary), to say, "These findings suggest that face masks and hand hygiene may reduce respiratory illnesses in shared living settings and mitigate the impact of the influenza A(H1N1) pandemic." Isn't this an example of a study what normally would be lampooned on this site? How exactly does the conclusion follow from the data? Another study saw statistically significant reductions in ILI, but again, only in the second half of the study, and did not find statistically significant reduction in actual positive flu tests. It is summarized by: "Face masks and hand hygiene combined may reduce the rate of ILI and confirmed influenza in community settings. These non-pharmaceutical measures should be recommended in crowded settings at the start of an influenza pandemic." However, there was no control group that was just hand washing. Doesn't it seem much more reasonable to assume that the benefits are from hand-washing, rather than hand-washing and masks combined, since the mask-only group saw little to no benefit? And if so, why are we using this paper to prove that masks work?
babesh 6y ago
A person trying to make a living by being picked up at a Home Depot parking lot or picking fruit has covid-19 rather far down the list of concerns. That person is also living in packed housing that greatly contributes to its spread. The various underlying reasons that brought these socioeconomic conditions forth (failing countries to the south of the US, exploitation of cheap labor in the US, endemic political infighting in the US, dependence of the countries on these people sending money back) make it unlikely that the US will ever control the virus. It would require combative parties to come together to fix a whole host of issues that they failed to fix for over 40 years. The host of issues have just piled up and by now are a mile high. It isn’t just covid-19 that the US is fighting against.
- babesh 6y ago
  I’m just waiting for the vaccines or herd immunity at this point.
- babesh 6y ago
  The Californian analogy is that we let the brush grow and grow so by the time someone accidentally started a fire, it became a conflagration instead of a regular small fire.

ExThermoGuy 6y ago

If the "colorful" language was short for "pusillanimous", then it wasn't colorful at all. Just brief. ;)

blaser-waffle 6y ago

To paraphrase Hosea 8:7 -- so the wind, reap the whirlwind. They'll get theirs soon enough.

DerekL 6y ago
By the way, it's sow. So and sow are homophones.

torpfactory 6y ago

We have a friend who is an ER nurse at a hospital on the Central Valley. She had a nasty interaction while buying takeout at a bar in Winters. Another patron said “we don’t need any mask wearing cowards in here” and then proceeded to get physically confrontational until her friend said “are you really going to beat up two nurses over wearing masks” and then he backed off. What a world we live in.

Teknoman117 6y ago
I got yelled at for wearing a mask while getting the mail at my apartment. Said I shouldn't scare her kids in their home. (apparently this person considered anywhere in the apartment complex to be "home")
sevencolors 6y ago
I'm still having a hard time understanding the aggression towards people wearing masks?! I sorta "get" why some people don't want to. But why get angry at folks minding their business. Are they just projecting their fears of being wrong?
- Teknoman117 6y ago
  > Are they just projecting their fears of being wrong? I'd believe this answer if someone told me :). It's the same thing that fuels all of the fanboi-ism in tech. The "I'm insecure about my choice so I need to attack all of the other choices to feel better" behavior.
- kevingadd 6y ago
  They believe the virus and masks are part of a conspiracy to deprive them of their freedom (???), so by wearing a mask you're participating in it, somehow. Not that bizarre compared to the (increasingly widespread) conspiracy theories about child trafficking in imaginary tunnels and basements that led at least one guy to storm a restaurant with a rifle. We've also had incidents of utility workers being attacked by people who think 5G towers are being used to spread the (imaginary????) coronavirus, so that's a thing.
  - disease 6y ago
    What are the psychological principles that drive people to believe in absolutely insane things that can easily be disproven? Why does this even happen? What do these people get from having these beliefs? Why do they do vehemently defend them to the point of fanaticism? These aren't hypothetical questions. I genuinely do not understand these people or their behavior on any level and I never see any attempt at an explanation anywhere - here, social media, mainstream media, documentaries - you name it.
    - ra7 6y ago
      I'm no expert, but my guess is lack of education combined with extreme political divide in the country. From what I've observed, one side thinks whatever the "other side" believes in must be wrong and harmful, so they are obligated to take a contrarian view and are willing to die on that hill.
jborichevskiy 6y ago
Can confirm. Visited an Airbnb in the mountains near Redding and was met with "oh we don't wear masks here". Quite the surprise.

Teknoman117 6y ago

I'm living in Central Valley right now and I can confirm very few people are wearing masks. Highly considering using grocery delivery now considering that the hospitals are now full in my local county. Pretty much figuring that if I were to catch it and need hospitalization I'm as good as dead here.

fspeech 6y ago
When Imperial county hospitals overflowed, patients were transferred to other counties. Stay safe but also know you should still seek care if you need it.

danans 6y ago

When things get bad enough, this is like people getting caught in a stampede, but one driven by tribal conspiracy theories instead of panic. Your risk ultimately becomes a function of the most extreme behavior (i.e. "Coronavirus house parties") of those around you. These localized "infection events" are often the source of larger regional outbreaks. This is what has just happened in Melbourne, where private security services were apparently lax in their monitoring of people in COVID19 quarantine hotels, allowing it to spread to the community [1] I'm very worried about friends and family in the Central Valley who have complicating health conditions. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ7qi-Gka4g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ7qi-Gka4g

jtbayly 6y ago

I don't get angry at people wearing masks. I comply with the local mask mandates where I live. Having said that, I have a question. Why does anybody think that masks actually help? I've basically been under the impression that masks are health theater that allows people to go on with life without being scared, though it doesn't actually do much of anything. Apparently I'm in the minority in thinking that. But I put on a surgical mask, twist the side ear loop so that air comes out the side instead of the top (right at my eyes), and I ask myself what in the world it is supposed to be accomplishing. It's not like people are wearing properly fitted N95 masks, and even then, the way people are talking about micro droplets seems like they might get through just fine.

webkike 6y ago
There are studies pointing to their efficacy https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191274/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191274/
- jtbayly 6y ago
  I've read a fair bit now, and I'm left with... questions. I haven't read it all yet, but nothing I've seen so far indicates that masks actually accomplish anything directly. From the summary of results: "Medical masks were not effective, and cloth masks even less effective." I'm assuming that is referring to in hospital settings, but still... somehow they magically they work "in the community." Has anybody proposed or tested a reason for why they would work in one setting but not the other? I saw no mention of controlling for how much time the participants (college students) spent with other people. Can we truly assume that wearing a mask had no other effect on the behavior of young people who are incredibly image-conscious and facing intense peer pressure to fit in? If I had to guess, the only thing they proved is that college students asked to wear masks will stay alone in their rooms more often than those not asked to wear masks. Of course, indirect benefits are still benefits. It is possible that something like this could happen when masks are mandated in public today. Meaning, mask mandates lead to people staying home more, which is obviously going to be effective. However, see next paragraph. Another problem I saw immediately is that they were required to wear masks for long periods when in their dwelling, but not required outside of their dwelling. This, of course, is the opposite of what we are doing. What is the result of inverting the study practices? They were studies on the flu. Can we assume the same effect on Coronaviruses? From one study... "Generalizability limited to similar settings and age groups." Ok... so we're ignoring the paper's warnings about what we can learn from it? In one study they were able to measure a decrease in flu-like-illnesses(ILI) with mask use, but it wasn't statistically significant, and it was only in the second half of the study (weeks 4-6). The summary ends with: "Neither face mask use and hand hygiene nor face mask use alone was associated with a significant reduction in the rate of ILI cumulatively." It then proceeds in the next sentence (the conclusion summary), to say, "These findings suggest that face masks and hand hygiene may reduce respiratory illnesses in shared living settings and mitigate the impact of the influenza A(H1N1) pandemic." Isn't this an example of a study what normally would be lampooned on this site? How exactly does the conclusion follow from the data? Another study saw statistically significant reductions in ILI, but again, only in the second half of the study, and did not find statistically significant reduction in actual positive flu tests. It is summarized by: "Face masks and hand hygiene combined may reduce the rate of ILI and confirmed influenza in community settings. These non-pharmaceutical measures should be recommended in crowded settings at the start of an influenza pandemic." However, there was no control group that was just hand washing. Doesn't it seem much more reasonable to assume that the benefits are from hand-washing, rather than hand-washing and masks combined, since the mask-only group saw little to no benefit? And if so, why are we using this paper to prove that masks work?

babesh 6y ago

A person trying to make a living by being picked up at a Home Depot parking lot or picking fruit has covid-19 rather far down the list of concerns. That person is also living in packed housing that greatly contributes to its spread. The various underlying reasons that brought these socioeconomic conditions forth (failing countries to the south of the US, exploitation of cheap labor in the US, endemic political infighting in the US, dependence of the countries on these people sending money back) make it unlikely that the US will ever control the virus. It would require combative parties to come together to fix a whole host of issues that they failed to fix for over 40 years. The host of issues have just piled up and by now are a mile high. It isn’t just covid-19 that the US is fighting against.

babesh 6y ago
I’m just waiting for the vaccines or herd immunity at this point.
babesh 6y ago
The Californian analogy is that we let the brush grow and grow so by the time someone accidentally started a fire, it became a conflagration instead of a regular small fire.