6 ms·

It is going to be really interesting to read historical accounts of our current times.

burtonator 6y ago
Covid is basically the perfect pandemic to hit the US in terms of worst-case scenario. This is a good example. Many of these people are illegal/undocumented persons who can't get benefits or medical treatment and can't afford to NOT work. They're still vectors anyway. The truth is that the US benefits from these workers and our economy would implode without them yet we vilify them and treat them horribly. Covid is karma.
- dsjimi 6y ago
  Our economy would not implode. That's ridiculous. We would go back to paying what our grandparents paid for food as a percentage of our paycheck. California created this situation through lax enforcement of immigration laws. It is less cruel to strictly enforce the law, as this prevents people from becoming second class residents.
  - meroes 6y ago
    Federal Gov't handles immigration laws and enforcement by and large.
    - s1artibartfast 6y ago
      I don't agree with all enforcement methods, but lets not pretend that California doesn't try to actively impede federal enforcement of immigration laws. For example, they passed SB 54, which prevents California law officers and agencies from assisting or sharing any information on illegal immigrants with the feds.
  - toast0 6y ago
    > California created this situation through lax enforcement of immigration laws. It's not for states to enforce federal immigration laws. If enforcement is lax, that's a failing of the federal government. It's also a failing of the federal government that the path to legal immigration for many people is file some paperwork, then wait 20+ years for your turn.
- s1artibartfast 6y ago
  I think you are making an overly broad characterization of how the US views and treats low skilled workers. Also, you seem to equate being latino with being undocumented, which is not the case.
- newfriend 6y ago
  All illegal aliens should be deported (according to US law). This is karma for being far too lax on immigration law (to the detriment of the American worker), not "treating criminals horribly".
  - driverdan 6y ago
    > to the detriment of the American worker Learn something about farming before you comment on it. You have no clue. Illegal aliens are the backbone of fruit and vegetable farming. Americans don't want these jobs.
PakG1 6y ago
Seriously makes me wonder if future generations would be able to garner a relatively objective understanding of everything that's happened. 100 years later, what would make one media source from today be considered more reliable than another from today? What first person accounts would be considered more reliable than another? Would you take the words of people on the street over the words of the president? What of all the people who agree that there's a deep state movement to work against the president in secret? How the heck would a historian be able to figure out what really happened? Suddenly makes me wonder how skeptical I should be of all our understanding of recorded history.
- karlshea 6y ago
  I wonder where a historian will even be able to read anything at all from this time. Most of the discourse on this has been online, and who will have archived Reddit and Tik Tok?
  - gizmo686 6y ago
    A) Archive.org B) We are recording way more today than at any point in history. It is not like what is currently on Reddit and Tik Tok would have been published in books, with copies stored on slides and archived in libraries around the world. It would have been done in person (or never at all), and never written down in the first place.
  - johnchristopher 6y ago
    > who will have archived Reddit and Tik Tok? I was told the CCP has the list of every video of skateboarding and memes I liked on the latter.
- rpeden 6y ago
  I think the “how do I figure out what the heck really happened” part is something most historians care about quite deeply and is an important part of historiography. Looking at the veracity of previously recorded history is part of historiography as well. I think skepticism of recorded history is healthy in general. Historians would probably agree.
protomyth 6y ago
Given very few look back to 1968 H3N2 Pandemic for lessons of the 100K dead in the USA, I doubt this will be more than trivia in 20 years.
- pengaru 6y ago
  Did the 1968 H3N2 pandemic paralyze the economy for years?
  - protomyth 6y ago
    Strangely, they didn't shutdown the economy with something that killed 100K in the US.
    - enraged_camel 6y ago
      It didn't kill 100k, it killed somewhere between 34k and 100k, and did so over a period of well over a year (between December 1968, which is when it became widespread in the US, to end of winter 1970 or thereabouts). In contrast, the coronavirus has killed at least 150k Americans over just five months. The wikipedia page for the H3N2 pandemic also lists reasons as to why the death toll wasn't much higher: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_flu#Mortality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_flu#Mortality Specifically: "The pandemic did not gain momentum until near the winter school holidays, thus limiting the infection's spread." If you think about it, this is the opposite scenario of today: our second wave is gaining momentum, and... we're reopening schools.
      - protomyth 6y ago
        The CDC says about 100,000 in the US https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1968-pandemic.html https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1968-pandemic.htm... I don't think the CDC is lying to me.
        enraged_camel 6y ago
        Also the CDC: https://phil.cdc.gov/Details.aspx?pid=15874 https://phil.cdc.gov/Details.aspx?pid=15874 That's why the wikipedia page I linked says "between 34,000 and 100,000" -- it cites the CDC. P.S. The fact that you completely ignored everything else I said is duly noted.

Covid is basically the perfect pandemic to hit the US in terms of worst-case scenario. This is a good example. Many of these people are illegal/undocumented persons who can't get benefits or medical treatment and can't afford to NOT work. They're still vectors anyway. The truth is that the US benefits from these workers and our economy would implode without them yet we vilify them and treat them horribly. Covid is karma.

dsjimi 6y ago
Our economy would not implode. That's ridiculous. We would go back to paying what our grandparents paid for food as a percentage of our paycheck. California created this situation through lax enforcement of immigration laws. It is less cruel to strictly enforce the law, as this prevents people from becoming second class residents.
- meroes 6y ago
  Federal Gov't handles immigration laws and enforcement by and large.
  - s1artibartfast 6y ago
    I don't agree with all enforcement methods, but lets not pretend that California doesn't try to actively impede federal enforcement of immigration laws. For example, they passed SB 54, which prevents California law officers and agencies from assisting or sharing any information on illegal immigrants with the feds.
- toast0 6y ago
  > California created this situation through lax enforcement of immigration laws. It's not for states to enforce federal immigration laws. If enforcement is lax, that's a failing of the federal government. It's also a failing of the federal government that the path to legal immigration for many people is file some paperwork, then wait 20+ years for your turn.
s1artibartfast 6y ago
I think you are making an overly broad characterization of how the US views and treats low skilled workers. Also, you seem to equate being latino with being undocumented, which is not the case.
newfriend 6y ago
All illegal aliens should be deported (according to US law). This is karma for being far too lax on immigration law (to the detriment of the American worker), not "treating criminals horribly".
- driverdan 6y ago
  > to the detriment of the American worker Learn something about farming before you comment on it. You have no clue. Illegal aliens are the backbone of fruit and vegetable farming. Americans don't want these jobs.

PakG1 6y ago

Seriously makes me wonder if future generations would be able to garner a relatively objective understanding of everything that's happened. 100 years later, what would make one media source from today be considered more reliable than another from today? What first person accounts would be considered more reliable than another? Would you take the words of people on the street over the words of the president? What of all the people who agree that there's a deep state movement to work against the president in secret? How the heck would a historian be able to figure out what really happened? Suddenly makes me wonder how skeptical I should be of all our understanding of recorded history.

karlshea 6y ago
I wonder where a historian will even be able to read anything at all from this time. Most of the discourse on this has been online, and who will have archived Reddit and Tik Tok?
- gizmo686 6y ago
  A) Archive.org B) We are recording way more today than at any point in history. It is not like what is currently on Reddit and Tik Tok would have been published in books, with copies stored on slides and archived in libraries around the world. It would have been done in person (or never at all), and never written down in the first place.
- johnchristopher 6y ago
  > who will have archived Reddit and Tik Tok? I was told the CCP has the list of every video of skateboarding and memes I liked on the latter.
rpeden 6y ago
I think the “how do I figure out what the heck really happened” part is something most historians care about quite deeply and is an important part of historiography. Looking at the veracity of previously recorded history is part of historiography as well. I think skepticism of recorded history is healthy in general. Historians would probably agree.

protomyth 6y ago

Given very few look back to 1968 H3N2 Pandemic for lessons of the 100K dead in the USA, I doubt this will be more than trivia in 20 years.

pengaru 6y ago
Did the 1968 H3N2 pandemic paralyze the economy for years?
- protomyth 6y ago
  Strangely, they didn't shutdown the economy with something that killed 100K in the US.
  - enraged_camel 6y ago
    It didn't kill 100k, it killed somewhere between 34k and 100k, and did so over a period of well over a year (between December 1968, which is when it became widespread in the US, to end of winter 1970 or thereabouts). In contrast, the coronavirus has killed at least 150k Americans over just five months. The wikipedia page for the H3N2 pandemic also lists reasons as to why the death toll wasn't much higher: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_flu#Mortality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_flu#Mortality Specifically: "The pandemic did not gain momentum until near the winter school holidays, thus limiting the infection's spread." If you think about it, this is the opposite scenario of today: our second wave is gaining momentum, and... we're reopening schools.
    - protomyth 6y ago
      The CDC says about 100,000 in the US https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1968-pandemic.html https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1968-pandemic.htm... I don't think the CDC is lying to me.
      - enraged_camel 6y ago
        Also the CDC: https://phil.cdc.gov/Details.aspx?pid=15874 https://phil.cdc.gov/Details.aspx?pid=15874 That's why the wikipedia page I linked says "between 34,000 and 100,000" -- it cites the CDC. P.S. The fact that you completely ignored everything else I said is duly noted.