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The trouble with the post wasn't the information, but the way it was presented. The HN guidelines state "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, no

The trouble with the post wasn't the information, but the way it was presented. The HN guidelines state "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive." "Just a reminder" isn't a good way to start such a conversation. It implies that there is already a consensus on the issue when there isn't.

nrmitchi 6y ago
While I agree with your first point, I think you are giving an uncharitable reading of the comment. "Just a reminder", to me, sounds like it is trying to append a relevant point, rather than disagree with/discredit the original point. A version of the comment excluding that ("Acknowledge how exceedingly well this works for white guys and the uphill battle faced by others.") sounds like an aggressive accusation.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
  Your second paragraph proves my point that it's a rather contentious statement. "Just a reminder," beyond implying that it is already known, is partly just an introduction to the main point. And the main point is an aggressive accusation.
  - jessaustin 6y ago
    Who is being accused? Of what? ISTM a general statement about the world accuses no one in particular of anything.
    - TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
      A good way to tell if a comment is rude or accusatory is to replace the people you're talking about with people you like. > Just remember to acknowledge how exceedingly well this works for Jews and the uphill battle faced by others. The above comment doesn't sound good and shouldn't be accepted by the community. Neither should the comment against whites.
      - jessaustin 6y ago
        "Doesn't sound good" contributes nothing to the discussion, other than betraying your lack of understanding. Ethics does not depend on personal preferences, and it's ridiculous to suggest I "like" Jews more than I "like" white people. As it happens, in certain circumstances the substitution you seem to intend as some sort of reductio ad absurdum would make perfect sense. Since I recently watched "Uncut Gems" and I love "Snatch", I'm thinking of the diamond industry in New York and Antwerp. Doesn't it seem fair to say that someone from those particular communities would have a leg up in that business? The centuries-long struggle for increased equality in USA has little to do with whom one "likes" or not. Your fixation on personal preference shows how little of this you understand.
        TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
        "Doesn't sound good" contributes nothing to the discussion. It's racist and discriminatory, I just didn't deem it necessary to use such direct, harsh language about what many consider a touchy subject. it's ridiculous to suggest I "like" Jews more than I "like" white people I used Jews as an example because Post-WW2 teachings of Jewish suppression would make the comparison more relatable to most people. That plus their relative per-person power distribution is more comparable to whites than, say, African Americans, making the comparison more fair. Use whatever group you like in substitution. The point is that you interpret such messages differently if the person is part of your "tribe." Your fixation on personal preference shows how little of this you understand. This moves into personal attack. That's unproductive.
        jessaustin 6y ago
        In fact, I am a white Caucasian but I am not a Jew. At this point, one such as myself would have to have his head up his ass not to realize that racism exists in USA, and it manifests among other ways in the privilege enjoyed by many (but of course not all!) white people in USA business contexts. "Racist" isn't a bad word. Many aspects of our society are actually racist, and we need a word to describe that situation. You write as if the worst thing one can do when one observes racism is to call it by its name. In fact that's just about the only good response we have. If you think someone is being racist then tell them about it. Just be prepared for laughter when they discover that what you're really whinging about is being reminded that privilege exists. If you really were e.g. a white handicapped high school dropout from eastern Kentucky, you wouldn't be surprised, because you'd see thread parent's privilege just as clearly as any minority sees it.
paulcole 6y ago
> It implies that there is already a consensus on the issue when there isn't Jeez wow, I didn't realize that the existence of white privilege was so hotly controversial here on HN.

nrmitchi 6y ago

While I agree with your first point, I think you are giving an uncharitable reading of the comment. "Just a reminder", to me, sounds like it is trying to append a relevant point, rather than disagree with/discredit the original point. A version of the comment excluding that ("Acknowledge how exceedingly well this works for white guys and the uphill battle faced by others.") sounds like an aggressive accusation.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
Your second paragraph proves my point that it's a rather contentious statement. "Just a reminder," beyond implying that it is already known, is partly just an introduction to the main point. And the main point is an aggressive accusation.
- jessaustin 6y ago
  Who is being accused? Of what? ISTM a general statement about the world accuses no one in particular of anything.
  - TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
    A good way to tell if a comment is rude or accusatory is to replace the people you're talking about with people you like. > Just remember to acknowledge how exceedingly well this works for Jews and the uphill battle faced by others. The above comment doesn't sound good and shouldn't be accepted by the community. Neither should the comment against whites.
    - jessaustin 6y ago
      "Doesn't sound good" contributes nothing to the discussion, other than betraying your lack of understanding. Ethics does not depend on personal preferences, and it's ridiculous to suggest I "like" Jews more than I "like" white people. As it happens, in certain circumstances the substitution you seem to intend as some sort of reductio ad absurdum would make perfect sense. Since I recently watched "Uncut Gems" and I love "Snatch", I'm thinking of the diamond industry in New York and Antwerp. Doesn't it seem fair to say that someone from those particular communities would have a leg up in that business? The centuries-long struggle for increased equality in USA has little to do with whom one "likes" or not. Your fixation on personal preference shows how little of this you understand.
      - TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
        "Doesn't sound good" contributes nothing to the discussion. It's racist and discriminatory, I just didn't deem it necessary to use such direct, harsh language about what many consider a touchy subject. it's ridiculous to suggest I "like" Jews more than I "like" white people I used Jews as an example because Post-WW2 teachings of Jewish suppression would make the comparison more relatable to most people. That plus their relative per-person power distribution is more comparable to whites than, say, African Americans, making the comparison more fair. Use whatever group you like in substitution. The point is that you interpret such messages differently if the person is part of your "tribe." Your fixation on personal preference shows how little of this you understand. This moves into personal attack. That's unproductive.
        jessaustin 6y ago
        In fact, I am a white Caucasian but I am not a Jew. At this point, one such as myself would have to have his head up his ass not to realize that racism exists in USA, and it manifests among other ways in the privilege enjoyed by many (but of course not all!) white people in USA business contexts. "Racist" isn't a bad word. Many aspects of our society are actually racist, and we need a word to describe that situation. You write as if the worst thing one can do when one observes racism is to call it by its name. In fact that's just about the only good response we have. If you think someone is being racist then tell them about it. Just be prepared for laughter when they discover that what you're really whinging about is being reminded that privilege exists. If you really were e.g. a white handicapped high school dropout from eastern Kentucky, you wouldn't be surprised, because you'd see thread parent's privilege just as clearly as any minority sees it.

paulcole 6y ago

> It implies that there is already a consensus on the issue when there isn't Jeez wow, I didn't realize that the existence of white privilege was so hotly controversial here on HN.