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I don't 100% agree. Actually we do criticise CCP alot and it's as proliferate and popular as a cultural phenomenon itself (especially the older generation since

I don't 100% agree. Actually we do criticise CCP alot and it's as proliferate and popular as a cultural phenomenon itself (especially the older generation since people in power back then were even worse). It's true no one would raise up a giant placard on the street 'publically' but that's just culture difference. If you must think it's a sign of repression then I can't convince you.

merpnderp 6y ago
Is it a cultural difference or is it the fear of a violent crackdown, which has happened in the past? [edit to make less likely to cause problems for people reading HN in China]
- dumb1224 6y ago
  I don't want to represent anyone but I personally think the fear is a bit over exaggerated. Ordinary people in general don't have such fear. You really have to get the attention of the very top and pissing people off big time. It's mostly having nothing to do with democratic movements. See example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Lijun_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Lijun_incident. And people in general enjoying discussing these issues and will understand all the subtext.
  - merpnderp 6y ago
    What would happen to people who started to publicly protest for the firing of everyone involved in the suppression of Dr. Li Wenliang's warning about COVID and his police detention and orders to stay quiet? Would it be possible to agitate for change, or would the movement's leaders be arrested and/or have their lives ruined?
    - dumb1224 6y ago
      There were 8 main doctors involved at the initial mess up. Eventually they are all publicly restored but the case of Li Wenliang led to a storm of internet protest (which I believe is the only thing covered in mainstream media). Some couldn't be taken seriously since it morphed into a meme (translation and circulation of the banned text into music sheet, mose code etc). But the truth is the ideological definition has been so fixed that it becomes sort of reverse psychology when people hear about protesting on the street, agitate for change they would feel appalled. In reality small protests did happen everywhere against injustice (just not in name of democracy). But of course these are just my opinions.
      - merpnderp 6y ago
        My point was there was no accountability for actively suppressing warnings about what has been the one of the largest pandemics in modern history. If Chinese citizens demanded those responsible be held accountable, what would happen to them? Ignored? Warned by the police to apologize and stay quiet? Arrested?
        FooBarWidget 6y ago
        In case of Li Wenliang and the initial COVID 19 mess up, some level of accountability did happen. The court ruled in favor of Li Wenliang, said the police's treatment was not right, and the police apologized. Also, the Wuhan city officials who handled the initial COVID 19 case were fired. Generally nothing happens to people who complain, unless they instigate mass protests or are deemed a threat to the state. As for whether govt officials listen to them: they do, although not always. Depends on the case.

merpnderp 6y ago

Is it a cultural difference or is it the fear of a violent crackdown, which has happened in the past? [edit to make less likely to cause problems for people reading HN in China]

dumb1224 6y ago
I don't want to represent anyone but I personally think the fear is a bit over exaggerated. Ordinary people in general don't have such fear. You really have to get the attention of the very top and pissing people off big time. It's mostly having nothing to do with democratic movements. See example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Lijun_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Lijun_incident. And people in general enjoying discussing these issues and will understand all the subtext.
- merpnderp 6y ago
  What would happen to people who started to publicly protest for the firing of everyone involved in the suppression of Dr. Li Wenliang's warning about COVID and his police detention and orders to stay quiet? Would it be possible to agitate for change, or would the movement's leaders be arrested and/or have their lives ruined?
  - dumb1224 6y ago
    There were 8 main doctors involved at the initial mess up. Eventually they are all publicly restored but the case of Li Wenliang led to a storm of internet protest (which I believe is the only thing covered in mainstream media). Some couldn't be taken seriously since it morphed into a meme (translation and circulation of the banned text into music sheet, mose code etc). But the truth is the ideological definition has been so fixed that it becomes sort of reverse psychology when people hear about protesting on the street, agitate for change they would feel appalled. In reality small protests did happen everywhere against injustice (just not in name of democracy). But of course these are just my opinions.
    - merpnderp 6y ago
      My point was there was no accountability for actively suppressing warnings about what has been the one of the largest pandemics in modern history. If Chinese citizens demanded those responsible be held accountable, what would happen to them? Ignored? Warned by the police to apologize and stay quiet? Arrested?
      - FooBarWidget 6y ago
        In case of Li Wenliang and the initial COVID 19 mess up, some level of accountability did happen. The court ruled in favor of Li Wenliang, said the police's treatment was not right, and the police apologized. Also, the Wuhan city officials who handled the initial COVID 19 case were fired. Generally nothing happens to people who complain, unless they instigate mass protests or are deemed a threat to the state. As for whether govt officials listen to them: they do, although not always. Depends on the case.