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Do they even need to bother with a Stingray, can't they basically just pull up whatever provider's law enforcement portal and click a few buttons?

by arsome 6y ago

TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
Yeah, different tool though. An active mode IMSI capture device (eg, a Stingray) can: Extracting stored data such as International Mobile Subscriber Identity ("IMSI") numbers and Electronic Serial Number ("ESN") Writing cellular protocol metadata to internal storage Forcing an increase in signal transmission power Forcing an abundance of radio signals to be transmitted Forcing a downgrade to an older and less secure communications protocol if the older protocol is allowed by the target device, by making the Stingray pretend to be unable to communicate on an up-to-date protocol Interception of communications data or metadata Using received signal strength indicators to direction find the cellular device[9] Conducting a denial of service attack Oop, near forgot the reference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_and_further_education https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_and_further_educatio... Radio jamming for either general denial of service purposes or to aid in active mode protocol rollback attacks
jacquesm 6y ago
No, usually they need some kind of warrant for that.
- bigiain 6y ago
  I wish I had any confidence that "need a warrant" didn't just mean "Do it without a warrant, and never admit you did it. Parallel reconstruct a different chain of evidence if it pans out." - and then later from court transcripts we read "The defendant got pulled over in a traffic stop for a broken tail light, and the officer discovered {{badthing}}"...
jdefr89 6y ago
They will need a warrant usually even with stingray. I worked at said company on said technologies and left because I was comfortable with controls in place that prevent law enforcement from abusing it.
- jagged-chisel 6y ago
  > I was comfortable I think perhaps you meant the opposite? You have about 30min to edit your comment...
  - samtheprogram 6y ago
    Not sure why you’re getting downvoted, the other words in GP’s comment, along with his other comment here [1], clearly indicate that you’re right. Unfortunately it looks like 30 minutes have gone by. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24039707 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24039707
    - jagged-chisel 6y ago
      Not to mention the logical discontinuity in “I left because I was comfortable” - I’d expect one to stay if they were comfortable. I would expect them to leave if they were not comfortable. But regardless of my expectations, I certainly could have been wrong. According to several other comments of theirs, discomfort drove them out. So I didn’t believe I was incorrect. It’s been awhile since I commented, so I hadn’t even noticed any downvotes.
xkcd-sucks 6y ago
Anecdotally from listening to police scanners, whenever there's an areawide BOLO notice or anything exciting involving a known party, they always say where the last "cellphone ping" was. E.g. "Look out for a Black male driving a white Nissan, last cell ping was on the north side of Lowell 15 minutes ago." Not sure if a warrant is required, but it happens pretty quickly
- blantonl 6y ago
  That data is typically from the cell phone network provider themselves, not stingray and dirtboxes. It's part of the Enhanced 911 system in the United States.

Do they even need to bother with a Stingray, can't they basically just pull up whatever provider's law enforcement portal and click a few buttons?

by arsome 6y ago

Do they even need to bother with a Stingray, can't they basically just pull up whatever provider's law enforcement portal and click a few buttons?

TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago

Yeah, different tool though. An active mode IMSI capture device (eg, a Stingray) can: Extracting stored data such as International Mobile Subscriber Identity ("IMSI") numbers and Electronic Serial Number ("ESN") Writing cellular protocol metadata to internal storage Forcing an increase in signal transmission power Forcing an abundance of radio signals to be transmitted Forcing a downgrade to an older and less secure communications protocol if the older protocol is allowed by the target device, by making the Stingray pretend to be unable to communicate on an up-to-date protocol Interception of communications data or metadata Using received signal strength indicators to direction find the cellular device[9] Conducting a denial of service attack Oop, near forgot the reference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_and_further_education https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_and_further_educatio... Radio jamming for either general denial of service purposes or to aid in active mode protocol rollback attacks

jacquesm 6y ago

No, usually they need some kind of warrant for that.

bigiain 6y ago
I wish I had any confidence that "need a warrant" didn't just mean "Do it without a warrant, and never admit you did it. Parallel reconstruct a different chain of evidence if it pans out." - and then later from court transcripts we read "The defendant got pulled over in a traffic stop for a broken tail light, and the officer discovered {{badthing}}"...

jdefr89 6y ago

They will need a warrant usually even with stingray. I worked at said company on said technologies and left because I was comfortable with controls in place that prevent law enforcement from abusing it.

jagged-chisel 6y ago
> I was comfortable I think perhaps you meant the opposite? You have about 30min to edit your comment...
- samtheprogram 6y ago
  Not sure why you’re getting downvoted, the other words in GP’s comment, along with his other comment here [1], clearly indicate that you’re right. Unfortunately it looks like 30 minutes have gone by. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24039707 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24039707
  - jagged-chisel 6y ago
    Not to mention the logical discontinuity in “I left because I was comfortable” - I’d expect one to stay if they were comfortable. I would expect them to leave if they were not comfortable. But regardless of my expectations, I certainly could have been wrong. According to several other comments of theirs, discomfort drove them out. So I didn’t believe I was incorrect. It’s been awhile since I commented, so I hadn’t even noticed any downvotes.

xkcd-sucks 6y ago

Anecdotally from listening to police scanners, whenever there's an areawide BOLO notice or anything exciting involving a known party, they always say where the last "cellphone ping" was. E.g. "Look out for a Black male driving a white Nissan, last cell ping was on the north side of Lowell 15 minutes ago." Not sure if a warrant is required, but it happens pretty quickly

blantonl 6y ago
That data is typically from the cell phone network provider themselves, not stingray and dirtboxes. It's part of the Enhanced 911 system in the United States.