5 ms·

An important takeaway is to "send out any email at all". Like the time with our first startup in YC W06. Our first client was the result of me just cold emaili

by nate 6y ago

An important takeaway is to "send out any email at all". Like the time with our first startup in YC W06. Our first client was the result of me just cold emailing a CEO of a startup I saw featured in Wired magazine. "Hey I like what you're doing. Maybe we can find something to do together." Short. Not expecting much. No pitch. Just genuine appreciation and interest in brainstorming a collaboration. And it unexpectedly lead to them signing a 5 figure deal with us which was everything to a tiny startup not making anything :) Over and over in my career I was amazed at what happened when I just bothered showing up.

paulcole 6y ago
> Over and over in my career I was amazed at what happened when I just bothered showing up. Just remember to acknowledge how exceedingly well this works for white guys and the uphill battle faced by others.
- hayksaakian 6y ago
  I think his point was that NOT showing up fails equally well for everyone
- gamblor956 6y ago
  It's sad that this comment is down voted to oblivion but it's very true. Just showing up doesn't work for everyone, and I've personally seen it not work at all for black and Latino founders.
  - TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
    The trouble with the post wasn't the information, but the way it was presented. The HN guidelines state "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive." "Just a reminder" isn't a good way to start such a conversation. It implies that there is already a consensus on the issue when there isn't.
    - nrmitchi 6y ago
      While I agree with your first point, I think you are giving an uncharitable reading of the comment. "Just a reminder", to me, sounds like it is trying to append a relevant point, rather than disagree with/discredit the original point. A version of the comment excluding that ("Acknowledge how exceedingly well this works for white guys and the uphill battle faced by others.") sounds like an aggressive accusation.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
        Your second paragraph proves my point that it's a rather contentious statement. "Just a reminder," beyond implying that it is already known, is partly just an introduction to the main point. And the main point is an aggressive accusation.
        jessaustin 6y ago
        Who is being accused? Of what? ISTM a general statement about the world accuses no one in particular of anything.
        TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
        A good way to tell if a comment is rude or accusatory is to replace the people you're talking about with people you like. > Just remember to acknowledge how exceedingly well this works for Jews and the uphill battle faced by others. The above comment doesn't sound good and shouldn't be accepted by the community. Neither should the comment against whites.
        jessaustin 6y ago
        "Doesn't sound good" contributes nothing to the discussion, other than betraying your lack of understanding. Ethics does not depend on personal preferences, and it's ridiculous to suggest I "like" Jews more than I "like" white people. As it happens, in certain circumstances the substitution you seem to intend as some sort of reductio ad absurdum would make perfect sense. Since I recently watched "Uncut Gems" and I love "Snatch", I'm thinking of the diamond industry in New York and Antwerp. Doesn't it seem fair to say that someone from those particular communities would have a leg up in that business? The centuries-long struggle for increased equality in USA has little to do with whom one "likes" or not. Your fixation on personal preference shows how little of this you understand.
- Sebb767 6y ago
  > Just remember to acknowledge how exceedingly well this works for white guys and the uphill battle faced by others. With all the bonus programs and scholarships for women and minorities, this is probably even more true for them. For example, the top 5 women graduating each semester in informatics from my university receive a grand of 5000 Euro. We do not have more than five women graduating each semester (it's a small faculty, to be fair). Just showing up once after completing your bachelors degree can net you 5000 Euro.
- benrbray 6y ago
  In my experience, I think the biggest problem is that due to structural and historical racism, race is correlated with economic status in the United States. It sucks to be poor, no matter what color you are. If you're not surrounded by people who have had success in their careers / education, it's hard to know which opportunities are available to you. Often, you only know about your parents and their career choices. Also, the problem isn't entirely that some people don't understand the value of "showing up". It's that they don't always where and when to "show up" in the first place. For instance, I know a first-generation college student whose parents, while he was in high school, didn't even realize college was an option for him until his teachers started pestering everyone about college apps. He was lucky to attend a school where most students go to college, but I can imagine that in a poorer area he would've missed the opportunity entirely, thinking that he's not smart enough (which he certainly was!).
  - ihaveajob 6y ago
    Correlation is definitely an important factor, but there are multitude of studies demonstrating an important inherent race/gender/origin bias in many important decisions, from hiring to housing to financing and more. It comes to mind an experiment carried in France where they sent fake housing applications where the only difference between two sets of applicants was a Muslim-sounding name vs a Christian one. The results showed a much higher response rate for the latter, despite everything else being equal. I can't find the original, but found this similar one working with job applications (https://www.pnas.org/content/107/52/22384 https://www.pnas.org/content/107/52/22384). Not to negate the main point about "showing up", but there's more to it. When I've had the chance to hire someone and there are two similar candidates, I preferred to choose the one with the lower ranked school credentials. My thinking is that if this person has reached the same level of achievements with less environmental help, they probably have more grit and get-it-done in them than the candidate from the top school. Much more than that can be done in a systemic way, but it's a start.
    - throwaway234349 6y ago
      I think it's important to consider the effect size when we talk about race or class bias. My personal feeling is that class (money) plays a much larger role than race (at least in the U.S. , I can't comment on France). I believe that now, when certain minorities have lesser outcomes than the white majority, it is primarily due to a higher prevalence of poverty. Consider East Asians, a minority who have historically been victims of racial injustice in the U.S. As recently as 1945, Japanese people were placed in internment camps in the United States. Despite all of this racism, they have better economic and health outcomes than the white majority. Why? I believe it is due to class. If we were to spend more energy fighting economic inequality I think we would see better outcomes for racial minorities. That is not to say that racism doesn't exist today, and that it's not important to fight against racial injustice. Both are important, but I tend to see much more discussion of race than class. As far as resume studies go, here is one that shows significant bias based on class: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0003122416668154 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/000312241666815... .
- bluedevil2k 6y ago
  "Cold calling" emails are color blind. A good product is a good product, no matter the color of the email sender. The OP's point was to "get out there and sell", which also is a color blind message.
  - riffic 6y ago
    People make all sorts of impressions on a person just by their name, or many other signals (such as email address, the time of day it was received, et cetera).
  - ihaveajob 6y ago
    Except it's been shown over and over again that even something as innocuous as your name can invoke inherent bias. For example, see https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/5494/black-sounding-name-conjures-larger-more-dangerous-person https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/5494/black-sound... for a study comparing certain names and how they suggest a more or less muscular/aggressive person.
    - bluedevil2k 6y ago
      Then change the name in your email. You're missing the point of the OP though - NOT emailing people will lead to 0 sales. Emailing people MAY lead to unexpected sales.
- zackmorris 6y ago
  Upvoted you to help get you out of the negative. I experienced agism for the first time when I turned 40. What used to be pretty much a guaranteed first interview after applying, turned into getting lost in the stack of resumes and never getting callbacks. I decided to take a break from tech a year and a half ago after the worst burnout of my life. And with COVID-19, I've decided to extend that another year or two. There are just too many systemic problems in tech and I don't like the direction it's all going (survival of the fittest, dog eat dog, hyper-competitive, etc etc etc). So I've decided to do service work in the meantime in the areas that I've neglected, which right now is handyman work, moving towards renewable energy. I've always felt inspired by Jimmy Carter's work with Habitat for Humanity. I knew about the various forms of prejudice in tech (that evolve from a feeling of being a reject growing up) but hadn't experienced them personally yet. So many young men especially have this feeling that everyone else is mistaken, and that they can do no wrong because they are the uber geek. Which clashes with their real-life experience of never being able to get a date, being broke all the time, working dead end jobs, etc. So they tend to overlook people who don't fit their expectation of what an expert looks like. Some of them grow out of it, but sadly a lot of us get trapped perpetuating the same patriarchy/misogyny/bigotry and similar systems of control without even realizing it. That's why I think it's so important to actively work towards justice and equity once we become aware of these issues.
  - barrenko 6y ago
    Oh man, I feel you.
- skinkestek 6y ago
  > Just remember to acknowledge how exceedingly well this works for white guys and the uphill battle faced by others. This isn't as straightforward as you make it sound. It definitely isn't straightforward for white guys with poor parents either. And unlike certain other groups there aren't anyone standing up for them. If they cry out they'll only make it worse for themselves as people will laugh at these "insanely privileged white guys whining". So can we stop this, or at least be a little more nuanced; stop pretending that just because someone is a white male they are automatically playing life on easy mode as someone said? Because it isn't true.
xenospn 6y ago
"Send out any email at all" but please, do NOT make it look spammy. And don't send the same email to multiple people.
manigandham 6y ago
Showing up is half the battle. Even more true today.
wastedhours 6y ago
Cannot agree more with the concept of just showing up. It's remarkable what you can get done by being, friendly, open, honest, just asking, and then delivering.
jjice 6y ago
This applies to so many things. It's incredible how far you can get with a simple question. Worst case scenario, you get a "no", and nothing changes. Best case, you can get something like 5K from AWS.

by nate 6y ago

paulcole 6y ago

> Over and over in my career I was amazed at what happened when I just bothered showing up. Just remember to acknowledge how exceedingly well this works for white guys and the uphill battle faced by others.

hayksaakian 6y ago
I think his point was that NOT showing up fails equally well for everyone
gamblor956 6y ago
It's sad that this comment is down voted to oblivion but it's very true. Just showing up doesn't work for everyone, and I've personally seen it not work at all for black and Latino founders.
- TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
  The trouble with the post wasn't the information, but the way it was presented. The HN guidelines state "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive." "Just a reminder" isn't a good way to start such a conversation. It implies that there is already a consensus on the issue when there isn't.
  - nrmitchi 6y ago
    While I agree with your first point, I think you are giving an uncharitable reading of the comment. "Just a reminder", to me, sounds like it is trying to append a relevant point, rather than disagree with/discredit the original point. A version of the comment excluding that ("Acknowledge how exceedingly well this works for white guys and the uphill battle faced by others.") sounds like an aggressive accusation.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
      Your second paragraph proves my point that it's a rather contentious statement. "Just a reminder," beyond implying that it is already known, is partly just an introduction to the main point. And the main point is an aggressive accusation.
      - jessaustin 6y ago
        Who is being accused? Of what? ISTM a general statement about the world accuses no one in particular of anything.
        TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
        A good way to tell if a comment is rude or accusatory is to replace the people you're talking about with people you like. > Just remember to acknowledge how exceedingly well this works for Jews and the uphill battle faced by others. The above comment doesn't sound good and shouldn't be accepted by the community. Neither should the comment against whites.
        jessaustin 6y ago
        "Doesn't sound good" contributes nothing to the discussion, other than betraying your lack of understanding. Ethics does not depend on personal preferences, and it's ridiculous to suggest I "like" Jews more than I "like" white people. As it happens, in certain circumstances the substitution you seem to intend as some sort of reductio ad absurdum would make perfect sense. Since I recently watched "Uncut Gems" and I love "Snatch", I'm thinking of the diamond industry in New York and Antwerp. Doesn't it seem fair to say that someone from those particular communities would have a leg up in that business? The centuries-long struggle for increased equality in USA has little to do with whom one "likes" or not. Your fixation on personal preference shows how little of this you understand.
Sebb767 6y ago
> Just remember to acknowledge how exceedingly well this works for white guys and the uphill battle faced by others. With all the bonus programs and scholarships for women and minorities, this is probably even more true for them. For example, the top 5 women graduating each semester in informatics from my university receive a grand of 5000 Euro. We do not have more than five women graduating each semester (it's a small faculty, to be fair). Just showing up once after completing your bachelors degree can net you 5000 Euro.
benrbray 6y ago
In my experience, I think the biggest problem is that due to structural and historical racism, race is correlated with economic status in the United States. It sucks to be poor, no matter what color you are. If you're not surrounded by people who have had success in their careers / education, it's hard to know which opportunities are available to you. Often, you only know about your parents and their career choices. Also, the problem isn't entirely that some people don't understand the value of "showing up". It's that they don't always where and when to "show up" in the first place. For instance, I know a first-generation college student whose parents, while he was in high school, didn't even realize college was an option for him until his teachers started pestering everyone about college apps. He was lucky to attend a school where most students go to college, but I can imagine that in a poorer area he would've missed the opportunity entirely, thinking that he's not smart enough (which he certainly was!).
- ihaveajob 6y ago
  Correlation is definitely an important factor, but there are multitude of studies demonstrating an important inherent race/gender/origin bias in many important decisions, from hiring to housing to financing and more. It comes to mind an experiment carried in France where they sent fake housing applications where the only difference between two sets of applicants was a Muslim-sounding name vs a Christian one. The results showed a much higher response rate for the latter, despite everything else being equal. I can't find the original, but found this similar one working with job applications (https://www.pnas.org/content/107/52/22384 https://www.pnas.org/content/107/52/22384). Not to negate the main point about "showing up", but there's more to it. When I've had the chance to hire someone and there are two similar candidates, I preferred to choose the one with the lower ranked school credentials. My thinking is that if this person has reached the same level of achievements with less environmental help, they probably have more grit and get-it-done in them than the candidate from the top school. Much more than that can be done in a systemic way, but it's a start.
  - throwaway234349 6y ago
    I think it's important to consider the effect size when we talk about race or class bias. My personal feeling is that class (money) plays a much larger role than race (at least in the U.S. , I can't comment on France). I believe that now, when certain minorities have lesser outcomes than the white majority, it is primarily due to a higher prevalence of poverty. Consider East Asians, a minority who have historically been victims of racial injustice in the U.S. As recently as 1945, Japanese people were placed in internment camps in the United States. Despite all of this racism, they have better economic and health outcomes than the white majority. Why? I believe it is due to class. If we were to spend more energy fighting economic inequality I think we would see better outcomes for racial minorities. That is not to say that racism doesn't exist today, and that it's not important to fight against racial injustice. Both are important, but I tend to see much more discussion of race than class. As far as resume studies go, here is one that shows significant bias based on class: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0003122416668154 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/000312241666815... .
bluedevil2k 6y ago
"Cold calling" emails are color blind. A good product is a good product, no matter the color of the email sender. The OP's point was to "get out there and sell", which also is a color blind message.
- riffic 6y ago
  People make all sorts of impressions on a person just by their name, or many other signals (such as email address, the time of day it was received, et cetera).
- ihaveajob 6y ago
  Except it's been shown over and over again that even something as innocuous as your name can invoke inherent bias. For example, see https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/5494/black-sounding-name-conjures-larger-more-dangerous-person https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/5494/black-sound... for a study comparing certain names and how they suggest a more or less muscular/aggressive person.
  - bluedevil2k 6y ago
    Then change the name in your email. You're missing the point of the OP though - NOT emailing people will lead to 0 sales. Emailing people MAY lead to unexpected sales.
zackmorris 6y ago
Upvoted you to help get you out of the negative. I experienced agism for the first time when I turned 40. What used to be pretty much a guaranteed first interview after applying, turned into getting lost in the stack of resumes and never getting callbacks. I decided to take a break from tech a year and a half ago after the worst burnout of my life. And with COVID-19, I've decided to extend that another year or two. There are just too many systemic problems in tech and I don't like the direction it's all going (survival of the fittest, dog eat dog, hyper-competitive, etc etc etc). So I've decided to do service work in the meantime in the areas that I've neglected, which right now is handyman work, moving towards renewable energy. I've always felt inspired by Jimmy Carter's work with Habitat for Humanity. I knew about the various forms of prejudice in tech (that evolve from a feeling of being a reject growing up) but hadn't experienced them personally yet. So many young men especially have this feeling that everyone else is mistaken, and that they can do no wrong because they are the uber geek. Which clashes with their real-life experience of never being able to get a date, being broke all the time, working dead end jobs, etc. So they tend to overlook people who don't fit their expectation of what an expert looks like. Some of them grow out of it, but sadly a lot of us get trapped perpetuating the same patriarchy/misogyny/bigotry and similar systems of control without even realizing it. That's why I think it's so important to actively work towards justice and equity once we become aware of these issues.
- barrenko 6y ago
  Oh man, I feel you.
skinkestek 6y ago
> Just remember to acknowledge how exceedingly well this works for white guys and the uphill battle faced by others. This isn't as straightforward as you make it sound. It definitely isn't straightforward for white guys with poor parents either. And unlike certain other groups there aren't anyone standing up for them. If they cry out they'll only make it worse for themselves as people will laugh at these "insanely privileged white guys whining". So can we stop this, or at least be a little more nuanced; stop pretending that just because someone is a white male they are automatically playing life on easy mode as someone said? Because it isn't true.

xenospn 6y ago

"Send out any email at all" but please, do NOT make it look spammy. And don't send the same email to multiple people.

manigandham 6y ago

Showing up is half the battle. Even more true today.

wastedhours 6y ago

Cannot agree more with the concept of just showing up. It's remarkable what you can get done by being, friendly, open, honest, just asking, and then delivering.

jjice 6y ago

This applies to so many things. It's incredible how far you can get with a simple question. Worst case scenario, you get a "no", and nothing changes. Best case, you can get something like 5K from AWS.