3 ms·

Fundamentally, the reason I'd rather anyone but Google have my private data is Google's ability to use it effectively. Many companies can vacuum up data, few ar

Fundamentally, the reason I'd rather anyone but Google have my private data is Google's ability to use it effectively. Many companies can vacuum up data, few are prepared to do anything intelligent with it. Not only does Google have far more data, it's able to use it. That makes them way scarier than ADT.

sumtechguy 6y ago
I used to work on systems like this. The thing is there is a lot of data. But no effective or even interesting ways to use that data. My guess they want to get into the 'home automation' bits. Which is a huge money sink and really not that interesting. They also need to be willing to do something more than on a 2-3 year time frame. I have things in my house that are 25+ years old. I zero plans on replacing them. My parents have a house that is 80 years old. They also have zero plans on replacing things. For the embedded market which is where ADT sits they need to be thinking 10-15 year time frames. They also need to think in the 'fail usable' state. If my internet goes out and I can not get my garage door open I am not happy and that thing will be on the way to the garbage bin. They also probably want in on that monthly recurring lease on equipment you do not really own.
- ocdtrekkie 6y ago
  I think when you combine data about doors opening and closing, security system status (home/away/stay) and existing data for location history and the like, it presents a lot more accuracy to people's routines, which can potentially be leveraged to sell ads. I don't feel like that data is easily monetizable to a company like ADT, but is likely very monetizable to Google.
  - justapassenger 6y ago
    You get this data, much much easier and more reliable from IP and explicit position tracking on web and in apps
    - cromwellian 6y ago
      And cheaper too then trying to infer it from building out a huge home market. Smartphones are carried by everyone, and people are on them all the time. HN commentators often have a naive idea that more data is always better.
  - sumtechguy 6y ago
    Oh I do not disagree. It is just a tough field to actually extract any value out of. I would bet at this point most of these companies sell that sort of data to 3rd party already. It is probably buried in that tomb of a contract they give people. There is a second possibility here. That no one is exploring. That Google is just investing money. Which means they have no effective way to use their existing capital. MS ended up at this position at one point.
cromwellian 6y ago
Really? because there are many examples of smaller less sophisticated companies getting owned by hackers. ADT might not do anything with your data, but hackers have lots of uses for it. So in your world, Google being able to sell target ads is more dangerous to you, then hackers getting access to your security cams or baby monitors, or stealing your personal dox and reselling them on darknet markets for bitcoin? There are millions of people who have been harmed by identity theft from databases going around of people's personal info that have been hacked from less secure companies. There was have been cheap IP cams that have had backdoors that were exploited, unbelievably, to build a search engine for readily available for pedophiles (https://ipvm.com/reports/the-search-engine-for-hacking-ip-cameras https://ipvm.com/reports/the-search-engine-for-hacking-ip-ca...) You have millions of people scammed by Indian call center scammers by taking advantage of terrible Windows security. You have tons of scammers buying people's personal financial information from existing databases that are traded. These are all real, palpable harm, where people have gone bankrupt, spent years cleaning up identity theft, had their children's room monitored by pedophiles and pranksters, etc
- ocdtrekkie 6y ago
  > You have millions of people scammed by Indian call center scammers by taking advantage of terrible Windows security. You know where all of those scams come from? Targeted Google Ads... So yeah, Google being able to sell and target ads is extremely dangerous, especially when they enable ads to be targeted at vulnerable populations like senior citizens. Funny story, the attack chain here starts with Google Ads, usually to push a Google Chrome extension in the Chrome Web Store, and then people end up letting a scammer onto their PC. And yet "terrible Windows security" is what you are worried about? I have been asking Google and Googlers alike to address these concerns for years, and Google's movement on it is far too slow, because the systems they use are far too profitable to change.
  - cromwellian 6y ago
    > You know where all of those scams come from? Targeted Google Ads No, quite a number of them are done via SMS and VoiceMail spam, e.g. Robocalls. What, you've never gotten a text or voicemail threatening you with a federal bench warrant unless you call up and pay money?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

sumtechguy 6y ago

I used to work on systems like this. The thing is there is a lot of data. But no effective or even interesting ways to use that data. My guess they want to get into the 'home automation' bits. Which is a huge money sink and really not that interesting. They also need to be willing to do something more than on a 2-3 year time frame. I have things in my house that are 25+ years old. I zero plans on replacing them. My parents have a house that is 80 years old. They also have zero plans on replacing things. For the embedded market which is where ADT sits they need to be thinking 10-15 year time frames. They also need to think in the 'fail usable' state. If my internet goes out and I can not get my garage door open I am not happy and that thing will be on the way to the garbage bin. They also probably want in on that monthly recurring lease on equipment you do not really own.

ocdtrekkie 6y ago
I think when you combine data about doors opening and closing, security system status (home/away/stay) and existing data for location history and the like, it presents a lot more accuracy to people's routines, which can potentially be leveraged to sell ads. I don't feel like that data is easily monetizable to a company like ADT, but is likely very monetizable to Google.
- justapassenger 6y ago
  You get this data, much much easier and more reliable from IP and explicit position tracking on web and in apps
  - cromwellian 6y ago
    And cheaper too then trying to infer it from building out a huge home market. Smartphones are carried by everyone, and people are on them all the time. HN commentators often have a naive idea that more data is always better.
- sumtechguy 6y ago
  Oh I do not disagree. It is just a tough field to actually extract any value out of. I would bet at this point most of these companies sell that sort of data to 3rd party already. It is probably buried in that tomb of a contract they give people. There is a second possibility here. That no one is exploring. That Google is just investing money. Which means they have no effective way to use their existing capital. MS ended up at this position at one point.

cromwellian 6y ago

Really? because there are many examples of smaller less sophisticated companies getting owned by hackers. ADT might not do anything with your data, but hackers have lots of uses for it. So in your world, Google being able to sell target ads is more dangerous to you, then hackers getting access to your security cams or baby monitors, or stealing your personal dox and reselling them on darknet markets for bitcoin? There are millions of people who have been harmed by identity theft from databases going around of people's personal info that have been hacked from less secure companies. There was have been cheap IP cams that have had backdoors that were exploited, unbelievably, to build a search engine for readily available for pedophiles (https://ipvm.com/reports/the-search-engine-for-hacking-ip-cameras https://ipvm.com/reports/the-search-engine-for-hacking-ip-ca...) You have millions of people scammed by Indian call center scammers by taking advantage of terrible Windows security. You have tons of scammers buying people's personal financial information from existing databases that are traded. These are all real, palpable harm, where people have gone bankrupt, spent years cleaning up identity theft, had their children's room monitored by pedophiles and pranksters, etc

ocdtrekkie 6y ago
> You have millions of people scammed by Indian call center scammers by taking advantage of terrible Windows security. You know where all of those scams come from? Targeted Google Ads... So yeah, Google being able to sell and target ads is extremely dangerous, especially when they enable ads to be targeted at vulnerable populations like senior citizens. Funny story, the attack chain here starts with Google Ads, usually to push a Google Chrome extension in the Chrome Web Store, and then people end up letting a scammer onto their PC. And yet "terrible Windows security" is what you are worried about? I have been asking Google and Googlers alike to address these concerns for years, and Google's movement on it is far too slow, because the systems they use are far too profitable to change.
- cromwellian 6y ago
  > You know where all of those scams come from? Targeted Google Ads No, quite a number of them are done via SMS and VoiceMail spam, e.g. Robocalls. What, you've never gotten a text or voicemail threatening you with a federal bench warrant unless you call up and pay money?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]