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Who cares about intent? Can I cash in a banker's "good intentions" elsewhere to get a loan for my business that I would otherwise qualify for if not for my name

Who cares about intent? Can I cash in a banker's "good intentions" elsewhere to get a loan for my business that I would otherwise qualify for if not for my name, zip code, alma mater, or my dialect? Can I pay the rent with the banker's "good intentions"? The idea that racism exists exclusively inside the heads of racists, and that the actual physical material and financial harm it does to disadvantaged groups is unimportant compared to the subjective feelings of the person who is hurting them is so absurdly privileged that it borders on racism itself. Imagine I burn your house down by pointing big fireworks directly at it. Would you be happy with the excuse "I didn't mean to hurt you, I was just aiming for the house with the least trees to get a better view of the explosion"? Are you suddenly happy with the loss of your house knowing that I targeted you for non-personal reasons?

macspoofing 6y ago
>Who cares about intent? If you're human you care. There is an extra level of malevolence when there is explicit intent. It makes a difference to people. > I would otherwise qualify for if not for my name, zip code, alma mater, or my dialect And where are you getting all that from? Loans are given based on personal attributes, like past ability to pay back debt (i.e. credit score), income, savings and collateral. Nobody gets a loan because of their zip code or dialect. What are you even talking about? Also, business loans are impossible to get for almost anyone. Banks just do not lend money for high-risk ventures like starting a business unless you put up collateral. Also, debt is an incredibly dangerous tool. Do not treat it like charity. I've seen debt destroy people and here everyone is treating it like it is a human right. I get the sentiment behind it (everyone should get screwed with debt equally), but the actual mechanism (i.e. debt) is terrible. >Can I pay the rent with the banker's "good intentions"? You don't need anybody's good intentions to pay rent. What are you talking about? Who is preventing anybody from paying rent? >The idea that racism exists exclusively inside the heads of racists Where else would it live? This distortion of a simple concept does not advance anything. It makes everyone confused. >Imagine I burn your house down by pointing big fireworks directly at it. Oh stop with these idiotic hypotheticals. Nothing about what we're talking about is like arson.
- hannasanarion 6y ago
  Racism isn't bad because it's done by bad people. It's bad because it hurts people. Racism done by "good people" is still racism, and it's still bad for all the same reasons. Nobody cares about racist intentions. Despite what fox news tells you, antiracists are not interested in prosecuting thoughtcrime. Have racist thoughts all you want, nobody gives a fuck. The problem that antiracism and all other egalitarian movements are interested in solving is racist/sexist/homophobic/whatever EFFECTS. Intent doesn't matter. Actual material harm matters.
  - macspoofing 6y ago
    >antiracists are not interested in prosecuting thought crime. Come on. Nobody believes that. It is a practically a religious tenant that racism is hiding in the brains of people unbeknownst to even them even ready to strike at any moment and therefore you need to root it out! Where do you think the idea of 'implicit bias' and 'implicit bias training' comes from? >The problem that antiracism and all other egalitarian movements are interested in solving is racist/sexist/homophobic/whatever EFFECTS. No. The problem with antiracism all related movements is the same problem as with all ideologies. Everything is framed as either stemming from racism, or being racist. It's like a conspiracy theorist that sees everything as the work of the illuminati. Or a Marxist that sees everything as a class struggle. Or a Libertarian that sees everything as a collectivism vs individualism. Or a Feminist that sees everything as a result of patriarchy. Ideologies are blunt instruments that are occasionally useful but are disastrous when applied universally. There is never any reflection on false positive identification of racism. There is never reflection on whether some policy (for example, differential mortgage approvals) is the result of racism or other factors (hint: it's always racism) - maybe racism comprises 5% of the differential mortgage approvals and the rest is dominated by other factors? There is never any nuance. There is no evidentiary support for vast majority of claims, and counter-evidence is ignored or disparaged (for example 'implicit bias' and associated training has been discredited for a long time now, but no matter!).

macspoofing 6y ago

>Who cares about intent? If you're human you care. There is an extra level of malevolence when there is explicit intent. It makes a difference to people. > I would otherwise qualify for if not for my name, zip code, alma mater, or my dialect And where are you getting all that from? Loans are given based on personal attributes, like past ability to pay back debt (i.e. credit score), income, savings and collateral. Nobody gets a loan because of their zip code or dialect. What are you even talking about? Also, business loans are impossible to get for almost anyone. Banks just do not lend money for high-risk ventures like starting a business unless you put up collateral. Also, debt is an incredibly dangerous tool. Do not treat it like charity. I've seen debt destroy people and here everyone is treating it like it is a human right. I get the sentiment behind it (everyone should get screwed with debt equally), but the actual mechanism (i.e. debt) is terrible. >Can I pay the rent with the banker's "good intentions"? You don't need anybody's good intentions to pay rent. What are you talking about? Who is preventing anybody from paying rent? >The idea that racism exists exclusively inside the heads of racists Where else would it live? This distortion of a simple concept does not advance anything. It makes everyone confused. >Imagine I burn your house down by pointing big fireworks directly at it. Oh stop with these idiotic hypotheticals. Nothing about what we're talking about is like arson.

hannasanarion 6y ago
Racism isn't bad because it's done by bad people. It's bad because it hurts people. Racism done by "good people" is still racism, and it's still bad for all the same reasons. Nobody cares about racist intentions. Despite what fox news tells you, antiracists are not interested in prosecuting thoughtcrime. Have racist thoughts all you want, nobody gives a fuck. The problem that antiracism and all other egalitarian movements are interested in solving is racist/sexist/homophobic/whatever EFFECTS. Intent doesn't matter. Actual material harm matters.
- macspoofing 6y ago
  >antiracists are not interested in prosecuting thought crime. Come on. Nobody believes that. It is a practically a religious tenant that racism is hiding in the brains of people unbeknownst to even them even ready to strike at any moment and therefore you need to root it out! Where do you think the idea of 'implicit bias' and 'implicit bias training' comes from? >The problem that antiracism and all other egalitarian movements are interested in solving is racist/sexist/homophobic/whatever EFFECTS. No. The problem with antiracism all related movements is the same problem as with all ideologies. Everything is framed as either stemming from racism, or being racist. It's like a conspiracy theorist that sees everything as the work of the illuminati. Or a Marxist that sees everything as a class struggle. Or a Libertarian that sees everything as a collectivism vs individualism. Or a Feminist that sees everything as a result of patriarchy. Ideologies are blunt instruments that are occasionally useful but are disastrous when applied universally. There is never any reflection on false positive identification of racism. There is never reflection on whether some policy (for example, differential mortgage approvals) is the result of racism or other factors (hint: it's always racism) - maybe racism comprises 5% of the differential mortgage approvals and the rest is dominated by other factors? There is never any nuance. There is no evidentiary support for vast majority of claims, and counter-evidence is ignored or disparaged (for example 'implicit bias' and associated training has been discredited for a long time now, but no matter!).